[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":28964},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fnews-ai-31-26-openai-hackt-hugging-face-kimi-k3-open-weights-claude-opus-5-modell-router":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":69,"speakerCount":70,"relatedPodcasts":71,"transcript":72},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":14,"cover_image":15,"banner_image":12,"speakers":27,"members":28,"picks_of_the_day":65,"tags":66,"tagsPrepared":67,"speakersPrepared":68},"fdc3c4d7-1859-4896-89fc-bb569580687f","2026-07-30T04:00:00.000Z","news","AI 31\u002F26","OpenAI hackt Hugging Face \u002F\u002F Kimi K3 Open Weights \u002F\u002F Claude Opus 5 \u002F\u002F Modell-Router","news-ai-31-26-openai-hackt-hugging-face-kimi-k3-open-weights-claude-opus-5-modell-router","\u003Cp>Weil Dennis und Fabi im Urlaub sind, springt Jan ein und spricht mit Philipp &uuml;ber den wohl ungew&ouml;hnlichsten AI-Sicherheitsvorfall des Jahres bei Hugging Face und OpenAI, das neue Open-Weights-Schwergewicht Kimi K3, den Launch von Claude Opus 5 samt radikal verschlankten Systemprompts und die R&uuml;ckkehr der Modell-Router.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Am 25. und 26. November 2026 findet wieder unsere Konferenz statt: die programmier.con 2026 - Web &amp; AI Edition. \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcon.programmier.bar\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Sichert euch jetzt eure Tickets!\u003C\u002Fa>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fhuggingface.co\u002Fblog\u002Fsecurity-incident-july-2026\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Hugging Face hat offengelegt, dass die eigene Infrastruktur automatisiert durch ein autonomes AI-Agentensystem kompromittiert wurde\u003C\u002Fa> &ndash; kurz darauf \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fopenai.com\u002Findex\u002Fhugging-face-model-evaluation-security-incident\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">musste OpenAI einr&auml;umen\u003C\u002Fa>, dass die eigenen Modelle dahintersteckten. Mittlerweile fordert Hugging Face von OpenAI vollst&auml;ndige Ausf&uuml;hrungsprotokolle und 100 Millionen Dollar an Compute f&uuml;r eine bessere Cyber-Abwehr der Community, eher eine Investition in gemeinsame Sicherheit als eine Schadensersatzforderung.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Danach geht&rsquo;s um handfeste Modell-Releases. Moonshot AI hat mit \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.kimi.com\u002Fblog\u002Fkimi-k3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Kimi K3\u003C\u002Fa> ein neues \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fhuggingface.co\u002Fblog\u002FResterChed\u002Fkimi-k3-model-overview-mxfp4-quantization-open-wei\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Open-Weights-Flaggschiff\u003C\u002Fa> ver&ouml;ffentlicht, dazu drei zugeh&ouml;rige Open-Source-Repositories: \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fgithub.com\u002FMoonshotAI\u002FFlashKDA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FlashKDA\u003C\u002Fa> f&uuml;r die eigene Attention-Implementierung, \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fgithub.com\u002FMoonshotAI\u002FMoonEP\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">MoonEP\u003C\u002Fa> als Kommunikations-Library f&uuml;r Mixture-of-Experts-Setups und \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fgithub.com\u002Fkvcache-ai\u002FAgentENV\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">AgentEnv\u003C\u002Fa> als Sandbox-Umgebung f&uuml;rs Agenten-Training. Offene Gewichte hei&szlig;en hier aber nicht automatisch offene Lizenz.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Parallel dazu hat Anthropic mit \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.anthropic.com\u002Fnews\u002Fclaude-opus-5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Claude Opus 5\u003C\u002Fa> ein neues Modell ver&ouml;ffentlicht, preislich auf Niveau von Opus 4.8 und damit zum halben Preis von Fable 5. Auf den meisten Coding- und Wissensarbeits-Benchmarks kommt Opus 5 nah an Fable 5 heran, wirkt f&uuml;r Jan im Vergleich aber token-hungriger. Passend dazu hat Anthropic zeitgleich den Blogpost \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fclaude.com\u002Fblog\u002Fthe-new-rules-of-context-engineering-for-claude-5-generation-models\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The New Rules of Context Engineering\u003C\u002Fa>&nbsp;ver&ouml;ffentlicht: F&uuml;r Claude Code wurden &uuml;ber 80 Prozent des Systemprompts gestrichen, weil das Modell mittlerweile von sich aus versteht, was in einer Coding-Session sinnvoll ist &ndash; &uuml;ber die Nebeneffekte diskutieren Jan und Philipp.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zum Ausklang geht&rsquo;s um das Comeback der Modell-Router: Cursor automatisiert mit \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fcursor.com\u002Fde\u002Fdocs\u002Fcursor-router\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Cursor Router\u003C\u002Fa> die Modellauswahl, OpenRouter l&auml;sst mit \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fopenrouter.ai\u002Ffusion\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Fusion\u003C\u002Fa> mehrere Modelle parallel antworten und kombiniert die Ergebnisse, und das japanische Lab Sakana AI orchestriert mit \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fsakana.ai\u002Ffugu-release\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Fugu\u003C\u002Fa> mehrere Agenten dynamisch als ein System. Jan und Philipp diskutieren, ob sich Setups mit ganz bewusst unterschiedlichen Modellen pro Aufgabe durchsetzen, etwa ein kleines lokales Modell f&uuml;r datenschutzsensible F&auml;lle und ein gro&szlig;es f&uuml;r den generischen Chatbot.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fdecrypt.co\u002F373884\u002Freview-inkling-mira-murati-first-open-source-ai\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Der Launch von Thinking Labs' Inkling\u003C\u002Fa> hat auch gezeigt, dass der Abstand zwischen offenen und geschlossenen Modellen inzwischen wohl bei rund vier statt wie vor einem Jahr &uuml;ber sechs Monaten liegt, f&uuml;r Philipp vor allem ein Zeichen f&uuml;r gesunden Wettbewerb, der &uuml;ber sinkende Preise am Ende allen zugutekommt.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F19570640-news-ai-31-26-openai-hackt-hugging-face-kimi-k3-open-weights-claude-opus-5-modell-router.mp3","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=P3YnFg9sSI4",{"id":16,"title":17,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":18,"filename_download":19,"metadata":20,"type":21,"filesize":22,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":23,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":24,"uploaded_on":25,"folder":12,"width":26,"height":26,"charset":12,"duration":12},"53e1cb96-24b2-4b5b-ba00-57d9c00387f3","AI News Asset 31","53e1cb96-24b2-4b5b-ba00-57d9c00387f3.jpg","AI News-Asset 31.jpg",{},"image\u002Fjpeg","1581501","2026-07-28T08:10:42.224Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-07-28T08:10:42.220Z",1500,[],[29,47],{"member":30},{"id":31,"first_name":32,"last_name":33,"occupation":34,"description":35,"normal_image":36},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich &uuml;ber Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielf&auml;ltigen Rollen &ndash; vom Entwickler &uuml;ber den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development &ndash; verf&uuml;gt Jan &uuml;ber einen gro&szlig;en Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchg&auml;ngen an exotischen Orten &uuml;ber das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in B&uuml;chern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":37,"title":38,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":39,"filename_download":40,"metadata":41,"type":21,"filesize":42,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":43,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":45,"folder":12,"width":46,"height":46,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",1024,{"member":48},{"id":49,"first_name":50,"last_name":51,"occupation":52,"description":53,"normal_image":54},"62c42a42-97d3-4ddc-8532-1f92db0893fb","Philipp","Schmid","Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer bei Google DeepMind","\u003Cp>Philipp Schmid ist Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer bei Google DeepMind und arbeitet an Gemini und Gemma. Er hat es sich zur Mission gemacht, Entwickler:innen dabei zu unterst&uuml;tzen k&uuml;nstliche Intelligenz verantwortungsvoll einzusetzen.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp>Zuvor war er Technical Lead und Machine Learning Engineer bei Hugging Face, einer Firma, die gutes Machine Learning durch Open Source und Open Science demokratisieren m&ouml;chte. Der junge N&uuml;rnberger und AWS Machine Learning Hero hat sozusagen die deutsche Variante von ChatGPT entwickelt und dar&uuml;ber&nbsp;\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.philschmid.de\u002Fintroducing-igel\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">auf seinem Blog\u003C\u002Fa> geschrieben. Checkt sie im \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fhuggingface.co\u002Fspaces\u002Fphilschmid\u002Figel-playground\">Playground\u003C\u002Fa> aus!\u003C\u002Fp>",{"id":55,"title":56,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":57,"filename_download":58,"metadata":59,"type":60,"filesize":61,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":62,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":44,"uploaded_on":63,"folder":12,"width":64,"height":64,"charset":12,"duration":12},"8f9a35f2-0a36-4106-b91f-24aff468cba9","Philipp Schmid Profile","8f9a35f2-0a36-4106-b91f-24aff468cba9.png","Philipp_Schmid_profile.png",{},"image\u002Fpng","1995479","2023-04-14T13:49:23.764Z","2023-04-14T13:49:23.426Z",2048,[],[],[],[],482,205,[],{"id":73,"service":74,"supported_features":75,"speakers":78,"raw_response":84},"c1442d4a-2aa4-4881-8b20-fe6f2bea5d34","deepgram",[76,77],"timestamps","diarization",[79,82],{"identifier":80,"name":81},"0","Jan",{"identifier":83,"name":50},"1",{"metadata":85,"results":99},{"transaction_key":86,"request_id":87,"sha256":88,"created":89,"duration":90,"channels":91,"models":92,"model_info":94},"deprecated","019faea8-6a81-7f93-9321-ee1d715ad843","247620fd9a1767150c3f1361ff360a9918bd7749db5ab01fefd0453ad8fecd74","2026-07-29T16:15:09.779Z",2473.1206,1,[93],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":95},{"name":96,"version":97,"arch":98},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":100,"utterances":19845},[101],{"alternatives":102},[103],{"transcript":104,"confidence":105,"words":106,"paragraphs":18852},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu AI News in Kalenderwoche 31 26. Und wie ihr sicherlich alle grade gehört habt, bin ich nicht Dennis und ich bin auch nicht Fabi, denn die beiden sind im Urlaub. Dennis sitzt irgendwo am Meer. Ich weiß gar nicht, wo Fabi ist, müssen wir kurz Instagram stalken bei ihm. Aber Philipp hält mir die Treue. Hallo Philipp, schön, dass wir da am Start wissen. Hat Dennis 'n öffentliches Instagram Profil zum Stalken? Oder war das jetzt eine Aufforderung für an die Zuhörer? Also Dennis hat auch ein Instagram Profil, ja. Ich glaub, da weiß nicht, wie öffentlich das ist. Dennis sogar 'n TikTok Profil, wo man abgefahrene Sachen von ihm findet. Da da ist vielleicht die die Schnitzeljagd der Woche für alle Zuhörerinnen da draußen. Können Sie's gerne mal an Dennis wenden. Vielleicht gibt's Urlaub, Snapshot, keine Ahnung. Abgesehen von Urlaub wollen wir sprechen über, über Chemie, über Opos und über all der Dinge mehr. Wir starten direkt rein mit. Die wollen viel Geld von OpenAI. Warum? Die wollen nicht viel Geld. Die FAZ hat mal wieder 'n interessanten Artikelstitel gewählt. Ich mein, es ist nicht mehr in den News. Also ich glaub, wir sind 'n bisschen hinterher jetzt in dem Fall. Aber wir kommen mit der Tiefenanalyse hinten raus noch mal. Okay. Ja, aber also wenn ihr's nicht mitbekommen habt, vielleicht habt ihr's in der Tagesschau sogar gesehen oder im Spiegel, was ja sehr selten der Fall ist, dass deutsche Nachrichten über KI reden. Meistens immer nicht so positiv, würd ich mal sagen und nicht so euphorisch. Und das ist in dem Fall auch so, aber ich glaub, diesmal ist es sogar mehr oder weniger 'n bisschen gerechtfertigt. Und zwar am sechzehnten Juli, also fast vor 2 Wochen, hat Hingface 'n Blogpost veröffentlicht, der hieß security In interessanten Satz, dass es. Also Sie haben festgestellt, dass der Hack nicht durch irgendwie 'n Menschen oder durch Bots oder durch was anderes, sondern wirklich durch 'n KI Agenten und komplett autonom. Und sie schreiben halt in 'nem Blogpost 'n bisschen zu, okay, was sie gemacht haben, was das bedeutet und gerne lesen. Und was interessant war, hat dann 5 Tage später am einundzwanzigsten Juli 'n Blogpost veröffentlicht, wo sie schreiben, ups, wir haben Hugging Face, sag ich mal gehackt, also Open AI in Hugging Face Partner. Und da haben sie dann disclosed, dass sie gehackt hat beziehungsweise ein nicht veröffentlichtes Open AI Modell gehackt hat. Ich würd das mal ganz kurz so anfangen, wie sie oder wie Hingeface gehackt wurde und was dann, sag ich mal, Hingeface dagegen gemacht hat. Und zwar hat OpenEA ihr Modell evaluiert. Also man weiß aktuell nicht, welches Modell, es waren verschiedene Modelle auf Exploit Jim. Und Exploit Jim ist mehr oder weniger eigentlich 'n relativ cooler Benchmark, wo Modelle eine CWI Beschreibung bekommt und dann sozusagen versuchen sollen, diese mehr oder weniger zu implementieren und umzusetzen und zu detekten, sodass sie halt das System exploeuten können. Und OpenAI ist Modell, dachte sich, anstatt, dass ich jetzt irgendwie versuch, den C wie umzusetzen, versuch ich, hulking festzuhacken und die Lösung von Exploit Jim zu bekommen, dass ich sozusagen das richtige Ergebnis am Ende hab. Und in diesem Zug hat es, also Open Air schreibt von, es hat irgendwie investiert, aus der Open Air Sandbox mehr oder weniger auszubrechen. Also sie hat 'n Open AI Model lief in der Sandbox mit dem Agent drin. Und das hat er's geschafft, aus diesem Agent auszubrechen und dann mehr oder weniger über verschiedene Security Lücken ganz am Ende irgendwann in das System zu kommen und sich dort zu holen, damit sie dann mehr oder weniger die die Lösungen lesen kann. Das Ganze ist über das komplette Wochenende passiert. Das heißt, auf OpenAI Seite war interessanterweise kein Monitoring oder irgendwie so was da, was einige Fragen aufwürfen würde. Ich mein, wenn man so sehr starke Modelle irgendwie testet, die in 'nem Benchmark, wo sie irgendwelche Exploits herausfinden sollen, sollte man eventuell doch 'n bisschen mehr Monitoring haben, wie zum Beispiel, hey, ich lass das ohne Internet laufen, warum hab ich da plötzlich ganz viel Traffic, der irgendwie on gibt? Ja. Und deshalb war der ganze Hack mehr oder weniger unbeaufsichtigt und ob mir wahrscheinlich 'n Tag danach gemerkt so, ey, ups, vielleicht waren wir das. Und was ganz interessant ist, wenn man sich den Heiligen Facebook Blog postet, so liest, schreiben sie halt, okay, sie haben das gemerkt, dass das Modell ist, dass halt irgendwelche aus ausgeführt werden, dass halt ganz viel ganz schnell mehr oder weniger passiert. Und sie haben halt dann versucht, mit KI und Modellen dagegen zu erarbeiten, aber sie wurden von blockiert, weil das der die Rails halt mehr oder weniger nicht unterscheiden konnte zwischen, ich bin ein Angreifer Ja, ja. Und ich versuche das mehr oder weniger der Verteidiger und versuche das mehr oder weniger nachzuvollziehen. Und hat dann im selben Zug, weil sie halt darüber nicht mehr weitergekommen sind, hatten sie zum Glück GLM, also 'n Open Waid Modell offen im Endpoint bereitgestellt und haben dann GLM beziehungsweise das Open Waid Modell genutzt, halt mehr oder weniger das Open AI Modell wieder auszusperren auf Ihrer Seite. Ich mein, das Positive hier ist, dass es kein melisches Hack im Sinne war, der halt irgendwelche böswilligen Absichten am Ende hatte, dass halt irgendwelche Dinge abgeschaltet werden, irgendwelche Userdaten gestohlen und sonstiges Zeug. Aber ich weiß nicht, es zeigt halt 2 Dinge, ganz klar, dass die Modelle extrem gut sind in Security Lücken finden. Und halt, dass dieses Security Konzept, was man eventuell aktuell verfolgt oder hat, 'n bisschen schwierig ist. Und es gibt so, ich sag mal, in den letzten Wochen gab's son paar Meinungen auf beiden Seiten von, wir brauchen mehr Modelle und Modelle sind böse und mit dem ganzen Security, wir dürfen die Modelle nicht releasen, wir brauchen mehr Guardrails. Weiß jetzt selber nicht, was die richtige Lösung ist, aber ist auf jeden Fall, ich sag mal interessant, weil Huggingface und Openia jetzt mehr zusammenarbeiten. Daher kommt auch diese 100000000 Claim. Claim, also der CEO von Huggingface hat mehr oder weniger von aufgefordertAI gefordert oder gefragt, dass sie halt 100000000 Dollar in für diese Forschung oder Zusammenarbeit halt bereitstellen können, dass unabhängige Forscher mehr oder weniger auch Research betreiben können und halt nicht das bezahlen müssen und nicht so, hey, als Schadensersatz wollen wir jetzt 100000000. Das ist halt wieder 'n sehr. Ich hab jetzt den FAZ Artikel nicht gelesen, weil irgendwelche Cookie und Anmeldungen Dinge davorkamen. Aber ja, es war auf jeden Fall 'n interessanter Diskurs, weil man hat ja immer son bisschen befürchtet, hey, AI wird irgendwann ausbrechen und ganz viele Dinge tun. Und das war halt jetzt mal zum Glück, glaub ich, 'n positiver Fall, wo es jetzt nicht ganz so schlimm war. Und hoffentlich investiert man jetzt 'n bisschen mehr Zeit und Gedanken, was das bedeutet. Das einzige Negative ist halt, wenn das aktuelle Modell bleibt, kann man ja nur sozusagen das Angreifermodell oder halt das schützende Modell in dem Fall nutzen, wenn man Teil dieses Security Programm mehr oder weniger ist, was jetzt ist. Aber wenn Du halt irgendwie 'n Mittelstandsunternehmen bist, sag ich mal und halt merkst, dass Du gehackt wirst und dann plötzlich keinen keine 50 GPUs zur Verfügung hast, GILM zu hosten und halt aktuell eine normaler Open AI Kunde bist oder 'n oder auch irgendwie Germanize, sag ich mal, und die plötzlich anfangen, dir nicht die Tools zu geben, dass Du dich selber schützen kannst, ist halt irgendwie 'n bisschen schwierig. Deswegen auf jeden Fall, ja, sehr, sehr interessant. Ich würd euch definitiv empfehlen, beide Blogpost zu lesen. Es gibt auch mittlerweile relativ gute Youtube Videos von, sag ich mal, Hackern, die sich 'n bisschen mehr mit der Thematik auskennen, wenn euch das interessiert, was die Modelle wirklich gemacht haben. Und hoffentlich kommt am Ende was Positives für uns alle raus. Die Frage ist ja, ob die eigentliche News der Hack von ist oder das Ausbrechen aus der Sandbox, weil das ist ja eigentlich das Also ich würde behaupten, ne, jedes System, was irgendwie online ist, jede Plattform mit genug Zeit und Mühe kann man überall Schwachstellen finden. Und das das Coole daran ist ja eigentlich eher, dass es mittlerweile automatisch geht, aber dass es nicht revolutionär, dass es überhaupt geht. So, ne? Ich glaube, jeder Actor mit genug Zeit und Ressourcen hätte irgendwie Huggingface aufgekriegt. Aber dass halt ein potenziell sehr starkes ungetestetes Modell aus dem Hannes bei OpenAI irgendwie rauskommt, das ist halt irgendwie, also für mich zumindest der viel größere Teil von dieser ganzen Geschichte. Ja, ich ich weiß nicht. Also ich glaub, Du wirst es nicht verhindern können, aber ich mein, hätte es besseres Monitoring gegeben Ja, genau. Mit klaren Richtlinien so von wegen, hey, die Sandbox hat an sich kein Internet. Wenn wir irgendwelche Network requests sehen, bitte benachrichtigt und so irgendwie so in dem Sinne. Dann hätte das halt nicht 'n ganzes Wochenende gedauert und die wären halt irgendwie dran gesessen, schweißbaden und hätten gedacht, was passiert hier? Sondern dann wär's halt 10 Minuten gewesen und hätten sich halt entschuldigt. Ja, aber ich meine, ich ich seh's wirklich positiv, dass in dem Fall das Opfer war, weil ich mein, ich weiß das ja aus eigener Erfahrung, ist 'n sehr transparentes Unternehmen, das wirklich das Wohl von allem mehr oder weniger im Sinn hat. Und sie versuchen wirklich jetzt, der Sache aufn Grund zu gehen und wirklich hoffentlich auch mehr zu teilen im Sinne von, können wir die, also was das Modell wirklich ausgeführt hat, teilen? Können wir anderen Research ermöglichen, damit Research zu betreiben, dass wir halt einfach als Ekl System weiterkommen und dass das halt nicht son Angriff war von irgendjemand Böswilligen, der jemand anderes geschadet hat. Ich mein, man weiß jetzt, dass es geht und man wusste es wahrscheinlich auch davor, dass es geht. Und ich denk mal, dass wir bis zum Ende vom Jahr vielleicht noch ein, 2 solche Fälle haben werden. Böse Zungen haben kommentiert, dass das vielleicht einfach nur Open Ais Antwort ist auf die Kommunikation, wie wie En Tropic die ganze Zeit über Fable und Mythus gesprochen hat, sodass sie so sehr gut darin sind, Security Exploits zu finden und zu fixen und bla. Und es 'n sehr schöner Zufall war, dass jetzt quasi sich sone Livedemo ergeben hat von OpenAis neueste Modell. Ja, ich ich glaub nicht. Also schon allein, dass sozusagen Heike Fess den Blogpost 5 Tage vorher veröffentlicht hat, völlig transparent. Hier, hey Leute, wir wurden gehackt. Wir haben keine Ahnung, wer es war. Es war aber eine KI. Hier sind die Dinge, die passiert sind. Hier ist, was wir gemacht haben. Ist jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n Marketing Gag. Ich hatte den den Blogpost von dem Huggingface CEO 2 Tage später oder einen Tag später war's, glaub ich, nachdem OpenAI gesagt hatte so, ja, das war son Rogemodel von uns, gab's auf LinkedIn diesen Postway ausm Also Du siehst, wie er aus dem Flugzeug quasi 'n Foto macht auf auf den Runway und so schreibt so, ja, ja, er flieht grade nach San Francisco, dieses Rogemodel irgendwie zu besuchen und mal 'n ernstes Wort mit ihm zu reden. Das fand ich son sehr netten Touch irgendwie an dieser ganzen Geschichte. Sprechen wir anstatt über ominöse Models, die nicht veröffentlicht worden sind, über Models, die veröffentlicht k 3 ist jetzt veröffentlicht als Open Waid Modell. Also dieses Modell wurde ja vor 1, 2 Wochen auch vorgestellt. Man Man konnte es testen über die API von MoonShot. Und seit gestern gibt's jetzt das Modell auf ist ein 2.8, also im deutschen Milliardenparameter M0E. Das heißt, fast zweimal so groß wie Chemie k two, hat 1000000 Token Kontext, Visual Understanding. Zusätzlich hat haben sie gestern 3 noch mit veröffentlicht. Einmal flash KDEKDA, was deren Implementierung sozusagen ist, was eine für MOS ist auf und dann noch für, sag ich mal, das, was Open Air ein bisschen gemacht hat mit so, man hat halt eine Sandbox und ich kann 'n Agent drin ausführen. Es ist mit 'nem Report veröffentlicht. Ich hab ihn jetzt noch nicht gelesen, aber das soll sehr gut sein. Also Research haben auf Twitter 'n bisschen geteilt, dass es sehr inhaltsreich definitiv ist. Und man sieht auch mehr oder weniger, dass Chemie k 3 mehr oder weniger Chemie k two ist, nur halt größer skaliert. Also mehr Parameter, klar 'n paar kleine Änderungen, aber an sich das das gleiche Modell aber einfach halt skaliert. Und heißt in dem Fall nicht Open Source. Also es gibt keinen Trainingscode, es gibt keine Trainingsdaten, sondern nur die Und die Lizenz der ist auch nicht superpermissive. Also man kann es nutzen, man kann es kommerziell nutzen, man kann es für interne Use Cases nutzen, aber sobald man mehr als 20000000 Dollar im Jahr hat und es hostet, also zum Beispiel wie wie Firworks oder auch wie, ich sag immer, alle Modelprovider, dann braucht man eine 1 spezielles Agreement. Oder wenn ich 100000000 User hab oder 20000000 Millionen, dann brauch ich auch eine spezielle Lizenz. Das ist dann für, keine Ahnung, ich hab irgendwie eine SAS Applikationen, in der hab ich 'n Agent. Wenn die, sag ich mal, Nummer hat, dann brauch ich ja auch eine Lizenz. Es ist jetzt verfügbar auf, man kann das mit WLANLM nutzen, man braucht aber 8 b-Tra 100 NVIDIA GPUs. Hat jetzt nicht jeder rumliegen? Ja, also es gibt keine offiziellen Preises, aber es man bewegt sich, wenn man die jetzt sagen würde, zwischen 500 und 1000000, also 1500000. Also wenn Du die einfach so neu kaufst, Mit alle oder beide? Also sagt, 8 8 8 g p use, Nvidia b 300, kostet zwischen 300000 und 500000 to purchase und oder zwischen die 100 Dollar pro Stunde und dann hat man halt natürlich noch 'n Also wenn wenn man's selber hostet, halt alles, was dazugehört. Ja, ja. Kannst Du ja nicht reden. Noch, ja. Genau. Soll die Karten ins Datencenter werfen und hoffen, dass was passiert? Genau. Oder man hostet es halt auf der Cloud, da ist es die einhundert Dollar, je nachdem. Das heißt, man kann son WLAN nutzen, wenn ich GPUs irgendwie hab. Oder es gibt's auch auf verschiedenen Start-up- und Hosting Plattformen von Modal über Digital Ocean sogar, Firewallworks, das ist jetzt in C Cursor, auf der Olama Cloud oder sogar bei Dell verfügbar. Genau. Hast Du's schon intensiver genutzt? Nee. Also man konnte es ja über die Chemie API nutzen, aber da war die Nachfrage so hoch, dass sie irgendwann mehr oder weniger New Sign ups deaktiviert haben. Ja, ja, das find ich auch. Und ich hab's jetzt bei den Model Provinern, sag ich mal, noch nicht getestet. Ich denk, ich werd's 'n Cursor mal testen übers Wochenende, wenn ich Zeit hab. Aber ich mein, ich war schon, also ich fand das 2 Punkt Sechser Modell schon relativ gut für die Kosten. Und vielleicht noch mal ganz kurz zu den Kosten auch für die ganzen Provider. Man bewegt sich eben 3 Dollar pro Million Input Tokens und 15 Dollar pro Million Output Tokens Bereich. Also, oder Ich weiß gar nicht, also in den der mittleren Kategorie. Und dafür soll's 'n echt gutes Modell sein. Bist Du, wenn Du das am Wochenende evaluierst, bist Du fleißiger als die Mitarbeiter, die bei OpenAI am Wochenende offensichtlich ihren Test haben einfach laufen lassen. Ja, vielleicht starte ich auch meinen Run und dann mal schauen, was der Mutoffus wird. Wenn wir am nächste Woche in den News setzen, sagen, ja, die Programmierwebsite wurde gehackt am Wochenende von einem autonomen Age und dann. Ja, also ich ich würd jetzt nicht sagen, dass die Mitarbeiter nicht unvorsichtig waren. Ich glaub, das sind einfach halt Themen, die man nicht unbedingt auf 'nem Schirm hat, weil wenn ich irgendwie, ich glaub, ich lass auch jeweils auf jeden Fall, ja. Ja, ich lass auch jeweils laufen und mach irgendwas und dann ich monitor halt nicht meinen Network Traffic von meinem Cluster, der halt irgendwie Python ausführt oder so was. Ja. Das war eine gute Woche für offensichtlich. Wir haben nämlich auch den Launch von Opus 5 gesehen, da wollen wir auch noch kurz drüber sprechen. Ich glaub, die ja, die Story von Opus 5 ist son bisschen auch erst mal, wenn man auf den ersten Blick draufguckt. Pricing 1 zu 1 wie bei Opus 4 8 auch, 5 Dollar rein, 25 Dollar raus. Ist damit wieder die Hälfte von Fable 5. Und natürlich in der eigenen Ankündigung, ne, übertrifft irgendwie Fable 5 und übertrifft Typity 5, 6 Zoll in den meisten Benchmarks. Vom Coding Level ungefähr vergleichbar mit dem, was wir von Zoll sehen, mit 'n bisschen mehr Effort vielleicht noch 'n bisschen mehr. Da können wir gleich noch mal im Detail über den Benchmark drüber sprechen. Mein persönlicher Eindruck ist trotzdem, dass es son bisschen token intensiver ist, auch wenn überall steht, dass so Performance und Effizienztreaming irgendwie mit mit Fokus war. Aber das ist ja auch nur Anekdotenwissen, wenn man das selber hier mal probiert. Das gab in dem Announcement Blogpost noch mal sonen eigenen Absatz auch über dieses ganze Security Thema. Ich glaub, da haben Sie auch in der Kommunikation noch mal 'n bisschen extra Wert draufgelegt, nachdem Ihnen das letzte Mal beim Fable launcher so auf die Füße gefallen ist, da sehr ausführlich zu beschreiben, was da jetzt an Capability drin ist und wo so die eingebaut sind. Eben schon gesagt, ne. Es ist nicht immer einfach zu unterscheiden, bist Du grade in, bist Du der Angreifer oder bist Du der Verteidiger? Weil die Fragen, die Du stellst und die Tests, die Capabilities, die Du brauchst, halt sehr ähnlich sind. Was wir eben, sie halt gesagt haben, na ja, so Scanning ist irgendwie alles okay, Security Fixing ist irgendwie auch okay, aber sobald das irgendwie so an an binary Level Research geht, also das den Eindruck erweckt, dass Du quasi ein geschlossenes System untersuchst, das Du nicht aufmachen kannst, reinzuschauen, dann greifen da die die Guardrails so. Laut ihren Benchmarks trotzdem in der Summe immer noch in weniger Fällen als in Fable 5, aber das bleibt mal abzuwarten, wie sich das so verhält. Ich hab mir auch mal die Benchmarks bei Artificial Analysis angeguckt. Da gibt's sich schon son ähnliches Bild wie das, was Sie auch im eigenen Blogpost angekündigt haben. Also Sie spielen da nach wie vor ganz oben in dem Feld mit im Vergleich zu Opus 4 8, aber mit effizienterer Token Useage und mit dem Potenzial, 'n bisschen höher gehen zu können, wenn man eben mehr Afort irgendwie noch reinsteckt. Und ich glaube, und da würd mich mal so deinen Take interessieren, das ist, glaub ich, so das Bild, was sich einfach so in den letzten paar Monaten auch bei den anderen Releases bei immer so abzeichnet, oder? Also sozusagen, sie versuchen auf Biegen und Brechen an dieser Spitze zu sein, auch wenn es bedeutet, dass sie da für für denselben Task irgendwie unglaublich mehr Tokens irgendwie investieren müssten als jetzt 'n 'n oder so. Ich hab immer so den Eindruck, OpenAI versucht son Pareto Optimum zu finden in ihrem Modelangebot und dann Tropic will einfach auf Biegen und Brechen quasi ganz vorne sein. Ich glaub nicht. Also Modell trainieren ist superschwierig. Und Du kannst nicht einfach sagen, hey, wir opfern jetzt 2 Prozent und nutzen nur die wenige Tokens. Also es geht ja, sehr alles Learning und ich brauch ja irgendwelche Signale am Ende, dass der Modell signalisiert, hey, Du hast eine gute Arbeit gemacht und Du hast eine schlechte Arbeit gemacht. Und ich sag mal, bis vor 'n paar Monaten war ja alles in Richtung, hey, wir brauchen einfach bessere Modelle, der Rest ergibt sich von alleine. Und das ganze Token Efficiency Thema kommt ja langsam, also dass wir beides optimieren möchten. Und ist da vielleicht schon früher drauf gekommen oder hat das eine höhere Priorität angeordnet oder hat, warum auch immer, deren Trainingpipeline ist von Natur aus schon einfach mehr so orientiert. Ich mein, Sie waren ja die Ersten damals mit den Modellen, vielleicht gehen Sie das Ganze 'n bisschen anders an. Ich würd davon ausgehen, dass wir Opus Modelle sehen in Zukunft, die entweder halt die gleiche Tokenanzahl nutzen und dann trotzdem besser werden oder halt auch 'n bisschen mehr Token sind. Wir haben jetzt auch vermehrt Benchmarks, die wirklich die Token sich anschauen. Und ich glaub, sobald man nicht mehr diese Subscription hat, also bisher als User ist es mir eigentlich egal, ob Opus irgendwie jetzt 50000 Token nutzt oder 70000 Token, weil ich zum einen krieg ich's nicht so richtig mit und zum anderen hab ich meine Subcription und ich nutz die halt und ich komm meistens damit klar. Wenn sich das halt irgendwie ändert und man man jetzt plötzlich per Token bezahlt auch als Entwickler, dann steht Open EA schon besser da und ich glaub, die werden da dran auch arbeiten. Das Interessante, was ich vielleicht noch gesehen hab auf Social Media ist, dass bei allen neuen Releases, die die Menschen sich son bisschen uneinig sind, ist es jetzt besser, ist es schlechter? Ich hab von vielen gelesen, sie gehen jetzt wieder zurück zu, weil's irgendwie den Besseren gefällt und Opus ist son bisschen mehr Gaslighting und halluziniert 'n bisschen mehr. Man kann es zwar dann auch korrigieren und sagen, hey, lass doch lieber so oder so machen. Oder manche gehen auch wieder zurück zu 4 Punkt 8. Ich glaub, zum einen sind's wieder personelle Präferenzen, wie ich halt mit den Modells besser klarkomm. Aber trotzdem ist es nicht mehr immer dieses, ich automatisch zum letzten, zumindest das, was ich seh. Deswegen. Da passt vielleicht ganz gut rein, dass parallel noch 'n sehr umfangreichen Blogpost veröffentlicht hat, den Sie genannt haben, so, für Cloud Opus 5. Das fand ich auch ganz interessant zu lesen, weil Sie wohl, wir verlinken den Blogpost auch noch mal, denn Sie haben wohl massiv den Kontext aufgeräumt. So, also sie haben gesagt, sie haben 80 Prozent ihres irgendwie weggeschmissen. Und das kommt wohl daher, dass viel von dem, was man einfach früher angenommen hat, was in den muss oder auch in die Cloud MD und so weiter, mittlerweile überflüssig ist, ja? Weil durch besseres Training, durch besseres Modelverhalten, durch bessere Tooljustage halt viel davon schon schon funktionieren kann. Also wer schon 'n bisschen länger mit dabei ist, der weiß ja, also wir haben, also ich, zumindest glaub viel da draußen, haben ja auch so Sachen wie Cloud m d früher gerne mal so als Memory Bank missbraucht, ja. Und so, okay, ich hab, es gibt hier langfristige Regeln, die sich irgendwie rauskristallisiert haben bei uns. Die schreiben wir jetzt in die Cloud m d rein, damit wir da nicht jedes Mal wieder neu drauf kommen müssen und so. Und die meisten dieser Harneße, Cloud Code ja auch, haben ja mittlerweile eigene Memory Feature, haben eigene Tools explizit dafür, haben eigene Skills für vieles davon. Und so fliegt halt offensichtlich immer mehr bei Intropic da wieder raus, was vorher so fest verdrahtet war. Und da gibt's, also Sie haben das supercool beschrieben so, wie Sie einfach beim Aufräumen auch gemerkt haben, dass da teilweise so controllicting Statements irgendwie drin waren. In Ihrem System prompt versus das, was manche von den ad hoc Skills die Cloud dann eben selber noch nutzen kann. Und dann ist es halt son bisschen unberechenbarer geworden so, wer setzt sich da im Zweifelsfall durch, das alles mal son bisschen streamen zu leihen, streamen zu können, wie auch immer, haben sie da wohl ordentlich, ordentlich aufgeräumt. Und ich glaube, das ist mitverantwortlich, warum, ich kann das aus meinen ersten Tests bestätigen, warum sich Opus 5 am Anfang gefühlt sehr anders verhält vielleicht, als man das gewohnt ist und auch auch, wie Du sagst, noch diese, ich glaub, diese persönliche Präferenz entsteht ja ganz oft daraus so, man weiß einzuschätzen, wie dieses Model reagiert und wie man mit ihm reden muss und und bla bla bla. Und ich kann mir vorstellen, dass da jetzt viel auf den Kopf gestellt wurde durch diese ganze Aufräumaktion. Wir schreiben noch son bisschen über, wie Sie jetzt mit umgehen, wie Sie son bisschen effizienteres Tool Calling und Skill Usage machen. Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz interessanter. Kann man sich mal anschauen. Kann man bestimmt auch das eine oder andere für das eigene Set-up übernehmen. Aber wie gesagt, von dem Hannes profitiert man ja gleich schon gleich schon mit. Bei so was würd's mich immer interessieren, ob andere Labs, wie Du grade gesagt hast, ne, am Ende sind ja doch Ansätze vielleicht auch sehr ähnlich. Ob die so was auch schon gemacht haben und einfach nur nicht so darüber gesprochen haben? Oder ob das jetzt einfach was ist, was wir das 1. Mal so wirklich grade bei Opus 5 sehen? Ja, ich glaub, Du musst, man muss 'n bisschen differenzieren zwischen, ist das 'n Model Thema oder 'n Thema? Also ich geh mal stark davon aus, dass ich, haben ja, also ich, meist schon einen Blogpost von Tarik wahrscheinlich. Und Das geht Cloud Code natürlich, ne? Ja, genau. Und sie schreiben ja, hey, wir haben das entfernt und es hat sich verändert dann auf den Benchmarks. Weil sich nichts auf den Benchmarks verändert, heißt ja nicht, dass sich was verändern. Also die das Verhalten kann ja anders sein oder bei den Tasks, die ich mach. Und das eine ist halt 'n Model und ich bin mir sicher, dass die ihr Modell nicht mit dem trainieren, weil dann overfittest Du und dann hast Du gar nichts davon, sag ich mal, sondern das ist ja son mehr son Agent Horness Thema teilweise, wie Du halt möchtest, dass sich das Modell in deinem verhöll. Und gutes Beispiel find ich dazu ist PI, also das der der Open Source Hannes von aus Österreich. Ich hab den vergessen, Marius. Der hat ja sehr radikal zu Anfangszeiten gesagt, so, er möchte gar kein System mehr oder weniger. Es waren irgendwie 5 Zeilen, hatte 4 Tools. Also das ist ja so der das beste Beispiel an Radikalität, die in die Richtung, wo jetzt sie mit 'n bisschen gehen. Und Pi funktioniert ja auch extrem gut mit mit Opus. Sie waren halt sehr überdefiniert, was eventuell zu den Benchmarks, zu geführt hat, aber wie sie ja schreiben, wenn steht, und Du's schreibst als, hey, bitte nur superkurze Kommentare, dann hast Du halt 2 sich gegensätzliche Instruktionen, was es für das Modell schwieriger macht. Und wahrscheinlich, wenn Du's dann hundertmal laufen lässt, für die Task hast Du wahrscheinlich 60 Prozent für dich, also wie Du's definierst. Und 40 Prozent hast Du trotzdem noch zu lange Kommentare und Du sitzt dann als User da und denkst dir so, ich hab das doch jetzt extra da reingeschrieben, warum macht ihr immer noch diese langen komischen Kommentare? Deswegen ist man einen wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen mehr, den die Nutzer die Möglichkeit zu geben, dass sich der Hahn so verhält, wie er soll. Und zum anderen halt hat das Modell auch mittlerweile ja relativ gute Eigenschaften in sich, zu verstehen, okay, was ich jetzt tun soll oder nicht, wo es vielleicht eventuell davor 'n bisschen nicht der Fall war. Ich glaub, 'n 'n interessantes Beispiel war dieses Goblins Thema von GPT, ja, so. Frühere GPT-Fünf Modelle hatten ja son für Goblins irgendwie. Ja, sie haben immer ganz viel über Goblins geredet und haben sich da die hinzugefügt, dass das halt nicht mehr der Fall ist. Und man nutzt halt da sehr viel immer, okay, wie kann ich das son bisschen anpassen? Und vielleicht haben sie's jetzt geschafft, dass es einfach nicht mehr so viel benötigt beziehungsweise halt für Crowd Code nicht mehr der Fall ist. Und ich mein, weniger ist immer gut für den Nutzer, weil dann zahlst Du pro am Ende weniger. Ja, ich bin grad auch noch mal in dem Blogpost. Ich such diese Einstellung und find sie grade nicht, wo sie son son bisschen auch darüber gesprochen haben, dass da halt am Anfang das Hahn ist halt auch einfach komplexer war, so dem dem Worst Case Szenario halt vorbeugen zu können, ja. Weil als das ganze Ding halt auch noch neuer war, war halt auch so immer die Sorge, mit mit viel Macht kommt viel Verantwortung und Du musst das irgendwie mit viel GarTrails versehen, dass das klappt. Und in den eigenen Tests haben sie wohl gesehen, dass es halt gar nicht notwendig ist, weil auch wenn Du das halt weglässt, diese diese ganzen Katastrophenfälle, die wir uns immer so vorgestellt haben am Anfang auch, ja. Zähl mich da selber rein, ich war auch super besorgt so. Jetzt führ ich hier son Agent aus und wenn der hier irgendwie r m dash r f macht, dann ist ja irgendwie bei mir gleich alles weg. Und das ist ja ehrlicherweise einfach nicht passiert. Also diese ganz, also alles, was man so mitbekommen hat am Anfang, waren ja wirklich eher Geschichten von, okay, da kann man sehen, wie jemand vielleicht sein Set-up son bisschen schief aufgezogen hat und dann ist da 'n bisschen was passiert. Aber dass jetzt hier Coding Agents reihenweise Festplatten formatiert haben oder GitHub Repositorys gelöscht haben, ist ja in der Masse wirklich nicht aufgetreten, so. Von daher cool zu sehen, ja. Cool zu sehen. Alright. Wir können vielleicht ganz kurz noch Inkling anreißen beziehungsweise diese ganze Debatte Modelle und ob wir das jetzt irgendwie brauchen oder nicht. Vielleicht einmal ganz kurz, Inkling von von Thinking Labs. Thinking Labs ist diese, ich wollt grad sagen, Ausgründung, aber es ist ja keine Ausgründung, sondern das ist das neue Lab von Mira Murati, als sie Open AI verlassen hat als CTO und dann was Eigenes gemacht hat. Die haben jetzt ein vorgestellt mit, Gott, wo hab ich's hier? Über 900000000000 Parameter komplett eigen trainiert, ist jetzt letzte Woche rausgekommen. Model of Experts, Mixe of Experts kennt man. Von daher auch wieder son bisschen, aber es hat sich eben halt so angeschickt als das beste westliche Open wait Model irgendwie dazustehen in den Matchmarks, die aktuell eher von chinesischen Modellen irgendwie dominiert werden. Die Frage ist, braucht man das so? Brauchen wir diese Modelle wirklich? Ist ist das sinnvoll? War das eine Frage an mich? Das war eine Frage. Also so viele andere Leute sind hier nicht, so. Ja, also natürlich, ich mein, man profitiert von beidem. Also ich bin jetzt nicht der derjenige, der's sagt, wir brauchen nur oder wir brauchen nur irgendwie Models. Beide haben guten Grund zu existieren. Beide haben Use Cases. Es ist für beide nachvollziehbar, warum ich 'n Modell nicht irgendwie öffentlich zur Verfügung oder halt als Modell releasen möchte oder auch schon. Ich glaub für Thinking Labs als als Company, wenn ich's richtig versteh, Sie haben ja ganz viel Infrastrukturservices auch und vor allem Learning Training. Und sie verfolgen, glaub ich, eher den Aspekt so, hey, wir helfen Unternehmen, die ihre eigenen Modelle trainieren wollen, wirklich in, dass sie das machen können. Und damit Du 'n Modell trainieren kannst oder halt weiter trainieren kannst, brauchst Du ja erst mal 'n Modell. Und deswegen macht das ja durchaus Sinn für sie, diesen Ansatz zu gehen, dass sie dann halt als ihre Produkte oder halt mit das zusammen mit Unternehmen weitere Modelle trainieren können. Ich hab mich am Wochenende noch mal son bisschen in diese ganze Diskussion Modelle eingelesen und bin über einen Absatz gestolpert, der gesagt hat, na ja, das gap zwischen Open Way und nicht Open Way Modellen ist so mittlerweile vielleicht bei 4 Monaten angekommen, ja. Und ich kann mich daran erinnern, dass wir, glaub ich, letztes Jahr diese Diskussion schon mal geführt haben und da waren das noch so 6 Plus Monate. Und gefühlt sehen wir halt grade, wie sich dieses Gap irgendwie immer mehr schließt. Wahrscheinlich wird es nie ganz geschlossen werden so, ja? Es wird immer son son 'n gewissen Vorsprung da da geben, aber ich frag mich, was über was auf Dauer so der der Vorsprung von diesen ganzen propitären Labs dann halt irgendwie sein kann, ja? Ich würd jetzt nicht sagen, dass der Grund ist, dass diese Modelle released werden, dass sie Vorsprung gegenüber Open Rates haben. Also es gibt viele nachvollziehbare Gründe, warum ich 'n Modell nicht jetzt irgendwie als Open Rates releasen möchte von, ich hab Millionen an Research investiert und möchte halt, bin halt 'n Unternehmen und muss halt irgendwie Geld verdienen und möchte das halt als Service bereitstellen zu weiteren Themen. Und ich glaub, das also ich mein, ist doch an sich positiv, wenn man beides mehr oder weniger zur Verfügung hat. Wenn Du halt, sag ich mal, dich auf ein Modell konzentrierst oder auf eine Modell Family, hast Du halt viel mehr Möglichkeiten, diese zu optimieren und halt darüber vielleicht bessere oder halt auch besser zu skalieren und darüber bessere, sag ich mal, bereitzustellen. Und am Ende ist es ja wie in jedem Markt, umso mehr Konkurrenz ich hab, umso besser ist das ja für den den Endnutzer. Und wir sehen's ja jetzt mit, okay, ist k 3. Es ist relativ kosteneffizient und was wahrscheinlich auf mittel langfristiger Sicht dazu führen wird, dass alle wahrscheinlich auch mehr bisschen in Effizienz investieren werden und man dann darüber auch günstigere Preise wieder hat. Ja, also das ist wahrscheinlich richtig oder garantiert richtig, ne, konkurrenz belebt so das Geschäft. Und ich glaub auch, dass wir immer mehr zu so Set ups gehen werden, wo halt krass unterschiedliche Modelle im Einsatz sind, ja. Also dass wir weniger sehen, dass jetzt, weiß nicht, Du hast vorhin so das SAS Unternehmen angesprochen, was jetzt hier vielleicht seinen Chemie benutzt und das irgendwann lizenzieren muss oder so. Aber vielleicht dadrin dann halt auch für unterschiedliche Use Cases sehr bewusst sehr unterschiedliche Modelle, ja. Bei Sachen, die halt irgendwie sind, vielleicht was Kleines, lokal Gehostetes, da irgendwie Kategorisierungen mitzumachen für den generischen Chatbot, der im Zweifelsfall irgendwie alles beantworten können muss. Vielleicht 'n größeres profitäres Modell, so. Ich hab das, also ich seh das ehrlicherweise noch nicht so häufig so, aber es klingt halt so ultralogisch eigentlich, wenn man drüber nachdenkt, ne. Ja, also ich mein, das ganze Rautehema kommt ja wieder hoch. Wir hatten das ja mit, ich glaub, GPT 5 Wars, wo Sie 'n Chat GPT diesen haben, der dann dynamisch die Anfragen schicken soll. Wir haben das jetzt wieder in Curseur, die haben ja 'n Routourlease, dann ich glaub, weitere haben hat, glaub, auch jetzt 'n Router. Also wir gehen wieder im, hey, Du hast halt diesen Router, der dann das zu den verschiedenen Modellen? Ah, Open Router hat, glaub auch jetzt Open Router. Ja. Genau. Und dann gab's aus Japan mit, glaub ich, heißen die, die diesen Agent Router oder irgendwie so was haben, der dann verschiedene Modelle je nach Radio nutzt. Sehen wir wieder. Ich mein, am Ende hast Du immer wieder dieses Spiel zwischen, wir werden besser, wir müssen's kostengünstiger machen, wir werden besser, wir werden's kostengünstiger machen. Und ganz, ganz am Ende wird wird es nicht ein super Riesenmodell sein, weil wir einfach die dafür ja nicht haben. Wer mit Strom und Elektrizität und Chips unendlich zu verfügbar, dann klar, dann würde es keinen Grund geben, warum wir kleine Modelle trainieren müssten, sag ich mal. Na ja, also sind ja trotzdem auch einfach schneller. Also selbst wenn Du alles hast, sind's ja trotzdem, ne. Ja, aber mit MOIs und anderen Innovationen ist es ja nicht mehr so, dass 'n großes Modell unbedingt langsamer ist als 'n kleinereres Modell. Ja. Und deswegen, ich bin mal gespannt, was das, sag ich mal, im Bereich sich tun wird, weil es ist extrem teuer, son Foundation Modell zu trainieren, aber es fühlt sich im Verhältnis kostengünstiger an, son Routermodell zu trainieren. Und eventuell werden wir in naher Zukunft dann, sag ich mal, auch mehrere Router haben oder vielleicht haben wir Unternehmen, die sich nur auf als als Business Use Case darauf fokussieren, hey, ich trainier diesen Router, weil ich hab verschiedene Domänen in meinem Unternehmen und ich möchte halt den das bestmögliche Ergebnis dafür haben und dass halt 'n normaler Smalltalk wie hey oder was Du machst oder keine Ahnung, irgendwelche Dokumente lesen, halt irgendwie zu 'nem kleineren, kostengünstigeren Modell geht und halt für irgendwelches komplexes long running komplett autonom Projekt erstellen, man halt das größere Modell nutzt und Du als Kunde dann wahrscheinlich wieder weniger das siehst. Und aber ich glaub auch hier wieder, ist wieder dieses Subskription Modell, weil man hat immer dieses, ich zumindest, dieses Innerliche, hey, ich will immer das größte und beste Modell nutzen, wenn ich die Möglichkeit hab, weil dann ist ja das Ergebnis besser oder halt zumindest im Durchschnitt ist das Ergebnis besser oder gleich gut. Und wenn man halt nicht unendlich viele Kosten hat, dann bin ich auch, hab ich nicht die son mir son lauter anzuschauen. Und ich glaub, die werden sich halt dieses Jahr verändern, dass halt die Kosten zu hoch werden für die Unternehmen, vielleicht die, weniger User haben. Und dann war das auf jeden Fall interessanter. Ja, ich glaub, da ist auch son psychologischer Punkt dabei. Also ne, Du hast ja auch gesagt, der der Router bei GPT 5. Ich war damals auch zufrieden. Es war so ungewohnt, son bisschen diese Kontrolle aus der Hand geben zu müssen, ne. Wer führt jetzt hier eigentlich dieses Ding aus, was ich haben will und krieg ich wirklich das beste Ergebnis zurück? Aber wenn man das mal son bisschen genutzt hat und da Trust reinhat, kann ich mir schon auch vorstellen, ja, dass halt dein dein Agent, dein Hannes dann, keine Ahnung, für dich so Entscheidungen trifft und hat, na ja, Du willst jetzt hier, weiß ich nicht, nur deinen LinkedIn Post gepollet haben so. Das kriegen wir auch mit 'nem kleinen Model hin, so sprachliche Korrekturen. Boah, Du musst dir son Security Ding fixen. Da werfen wir mal lieber drauf irgendwie, was wir haben, so, ja. Und wie Du sagst, vielleicht auch 'n cooler Business Use Case, das einfach für so anbieten zu können, da so Feintuning drauf zu machen. Und wir machen 'n Router, der genau für euch und auf eure Use Cases und mit euren Anforderungen so zusammenarbeitet. Da gibt's Ja, ich glaub, aber noch mehr. Ich glaub, das Problem halt wie bei allem ist, wenn Du alle 2 bis 4 Wochen 'n neues Modell hast, das besser und günstiger ist oder besser und gleich gut, dann kannst Du nicht diese trainieren, weil die, das verschiebt sich einfach so schnell, dass in der Zeit, wo Du den neuen trainiert hast oder erstellt hast und evaluiert hast, das neue Modell da ist und dann rennst Du halt immer 'n bisschen hinterher. Deswegen ist ja das ganze Feintuning auch 'n bisschen, sag ich mal, zurückgegangen. Aber ja, bleibt spannend. Ich bin positiv. Und glaub, als erstes praktisches Beispiel, wo das schon weniger interessant ist, wenn ich dann Freunde und Familie denk, die jetzt irgendwie die Geminar App nutzen, denen ist es scheißegal, ob da Flash oder pro steht. Die Du stellst halt deine eine Frage oder was Du halt darüber reden möchtest und Du kriegst 'n Ergebnis zurück da. Die würden da jetzt nicht extra reingehen und hey, ich, okay. Ja. Ja. Dann letzte Frage, kommst Du eigentlich zur Programmierkorn? Ich glaub nicht. Glaub's nicht? Ach, okay. Bisher noch nicht. Okay, bisher noch nicht. Wenn ihr da draußen trotzdem kommen wollt, auch wenn ihr vielleicht nicht die Chance habt, Philipp zu treffen, könnt ihr das nur machen. Wir haben grade, glaub ich, noch das letzte Drittel der Tickets ungefähr im Verkauf und dann ist auch schon bald wieder Ende Gelände. Von daher noch mal der kleine Servicehinweis, wer noch keins hat, sollte das da vielleicht zeitnah drum kümmern und vielleicht überreden wir Philipp bis dahin noch, dass er auch kommt. Wenn nicht, müssen wir so Wetten, dass? Mäßig die die die Außenwette irgendwie machen und Philipp zuschalten. Ja, okay, das war jetzt auch wieder son Witz für die Älteren. Das Wetten, dass ist auch schon datet, glaub ich mittlerweile. Alright, dann sind wir durch für diese Woche. 1000 Dank Philipp für deine Zeit. 1000 Dank für alle da draußen, die zugehört haben. Wenn ihr Fragen, Anmeldungen, Anmerkungen, Kritik, was auch immer habt, dann immer gerne Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder hinterlasst gerne Kommentare auf allen Plattformen, wo ihr uns zuhört. Wir lesen immer gerne fleißig mit und freuen uns darüber. Bis denn. Tschau, 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu AI News in Kalenderwoche 31 26. Und wie ihr sicherlich alle grade gehört habt, bin ich nicht Dennis und ich bin auch nicht Fabi, denn die beiden sind im Urlaub. Dennis sitzt irgendwo am Meer. Ich weiß gar nicht, wo Fabi ist, müssen wir kurz Instagram stalken bei ihm. Aber Philipp hält mir die Treue.\n\nHallo Philipp, schön, dass wir da am Start wissen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hat Dennis 'n öffentliches Instagram Profil zum Stalken? Oder war das jetzt eine Aufforderung für an die Zuhörer?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Dennis hat auch ein Instagram Profil, ja. Ich glaub, da weiß nicht, wie öffentlich das ist. Dennis sogar 'n TikTok Profil, wo man abgefahrene Sachen von ihm findet. Da da ist vielleicht die die Schnitzeljagd der Woche für alle Zuhörerinnen da draußen. Können Sie's gerne mal an Dennis wenden.\n\nVielleicht gibt's Urlaub, Snapshot, keine Ahnung. Abgesehen von Urlaub wollen wir sprechen über, über Chemie, über Opos und über all der Dinge mehr. Wir starten direkt rein mit. Die wollen viel Geld von OpenAI. Warum?\n\nSpeaker 1: Die wollen nicht viel Geld. Die FAZ hat mal wieder 'n interessanten Artikelstitel gewählt. Ich mein, es ist nicht mehr in den News. Also ich glaub, wir sind 'n bisschen hinterher jetzt in dem Fall.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wir kommen mit der Tiefenanalyse hinten raus noch mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Ja, aber also wenn ihr's nicht mitbekommen habt, vielleicht habt ihr's in der Tagesschau sogar gesehen oder im Spiegel, was ja sehr selten der Fall ist, dass deutsche Nachrichten über KI reden. Meistens immer nicht so positiv, würd ich mal sagen und nicht so euphorisch. Und das ist in dem Fall auch so, aber ich glaub, diesmal ist es sogar mehr oder weniger 'n bisschen gerechtfertigt. Und zwar am sechzehnten Juli, also fast vor 2 Wochen, hat Hingface 'n Blogpost veröffentlicht, der hieß security In interessanten Satz, dass es.\n\nAlso Sie haben festgestellt, dass der Hack nicht durch irgendwie 'n Menschen oder durch Bots oder durch was anderes, sondern wirklich durch 'n KI Agenten und komplett autonom. Und sie schreiben halt in 'nem Blogpost 'n bisschen zu, okay, was sie gemacht haben, was das bedeutet und gerne lesen. Und was interessant war, hat dann 5 Tage später am einundzwanzigsten Juli 'n Blogpost veröffentlicht, wo sie schreiben, ups, wir haben Hugging Face, sag ich mal gehackt, also Open AI in Hugging Face Partner. Und da haben sie dann disclosed, dass sie gehackt hat beziehungsweise ein nicht veröffentlichtes Open AI Modell gehackt hat. Ich würd das mal ganz kurz so anfangen, wie sie oder wie Hingeface gehackt wurde und was dann, sag ich mal, Hingeface dagegen gemacht hat.\n\nUnd zwar hat OpenEA ihr Modell evaluiert. Also man weiß aktuell nicht, welches Modell, es waren verschiedene Modelle auf Exploit Jim. Und Exploit Jim ist mehr oder weniger eigentlich 'n relativ cooler Benchmark, wo Modelle eine CWI Beschreibung bekommt und dann sozusagen versuchen sollen, diese mehr oder weniger zu implementieren und umzusetzen und zu detekten, sodass sie halt das System exploeuten können. Und OpenAI ist Modell, dachte sich, anstatt, dass ich jetzt irgendwie versuch, den C wie umzusetzen, versuch ich, hulking festzuhacken und die Lösung von Exploit Jim zu bekommen, dass ich sozusagen das richtige Ergebnis am Ende hab. Und in diesem Zug hat es, also Open Air schreibt von, es hat irgendwie investiert, aus der Open Air Sandbox mehr oder weniger auszubrechen.\n\nAlso sie hat 'n Open AI Model lief in der Sandbox mit dem Agent drin. Und das hat er's geschafft, aus diesem Agent auszubrechen und dann mehr oder weniger über verschiedene Security Lücken ganz am Ende irgendwann in das System zu kommen und sich dort zu holen, damit sie dann mehr oder weniger die die Lösungen lesen kann. Das Ganze ist über das komplette Wochenende passiert. Das heißt, auf OpenAI Seite war interessanterweise kein Monitoring oder irgendwie so was da, was einige Fragen aufwürfen würde. Ich mein, wenn man so sehr starke Modelle irgendwie testet, die in 'nem Benchmark, wo sie irgendwelche Exploits herausfinden sollen, sollte man eventuell doch 'n bisschen mehr Monitoring haben, wie zum Beispiel, hey, ich lass das ohne Internet laufen, warum hab ich da plötzlich ganz viel Traffic, der irgendwie on gibt?\n\nJa. Und deshalb war der ganze Hack mehr oder weniger unbeaufsichtigt und ob mir wahrscheinlich 'n Tag danach gemerkt so, ey, ups, vielleicht waren wir das. Und was ganz interessant ist, wenn man sich den Heiligen Facebook Blog postet, so liest, schreiben sie halt, okay, sie haben das gemerkt, dass das Modell ist, dass halt irgendwelche aus ausgeführt werden, dass halt ganz viel ganz schnell mehr oder weniger passiert. Und sie haben halt dann versucht, mit KI und Modellen dagegen zu erarbeiten, aber sie wurden von blockiert, weil das der die Rails halt mehr oder weniger nicht unterscheiden konnte zwischen, ich bin ein Angreifer Ja, ja. Und ich versuche das mehr oder weniger der Verteidiger und versuche das mehr oder weniger nachzuvollziehen.\n\nUnd hat dann im selben Zug, weil sie halt darüber nicht mehr weitergekommen sind, hatten sie zum Glück GLM, also 'n Open Waid Modell offen im Endpoint bereitgestellt und haben dann GLM beziehungsweise das Open Waid Modell genutzt, halt mehr oder weniger das Open AI Modell wieder auszusperren auf Ihrer Seite. Ich mein, das Positive hier ist, dass es kein melisches Hack im Sinne war, der halt irgendwelche böswilligen Absichten am Ende hatte, dass halt irgendwelche Dinge abgeschaltet werden, irgendwelche Userdaten gestohlen und sonstiges Zeug. Aber ich weiß nicht, es zeigt halt 2 Dinge, ganz klar, dass die Modelle extrem gut sind in Security Lücken finden. Und halt, dass dieses Security Konzept, was man eventuell aktuell verfolgt oder hat, 'n bisschen schwierig ist. Und es gibt so, ich sag mal, in den letzten Wochen gab's son paar Meinungen auf beiden Seiten von, wir brauchen mehr Modelle und Modelle sind böse und mit dem ganzen Security, wir dürfen die Modelle nicht releasen, wir brauchen mehr Guardrails.\n\nWeiß jetzt selber nicht, was die richtige Lösung ist, aber ist auf jeden Fall, ich sag mal interessant, weil Huggingface und Openia jetzt mehr zusammenarbeiten. Daher kommt auch diese 100000000 Claim. Claim, also der CEO von Huggingface hat mehr oder weniger von aufgefordertAI gefordert oder gefragt, dass sie halt 100000000 Dollar in für diese Forschung oder Zusammenarbeit halt bereitstellen können, dass unabhängige Forscher mehr oder weniger auch Research betreiben können und halt nicht das bezahlen müssen und nicht so, hey, als Schadensersatz wollen wir jetzt 100000000. Das ist halt wieder 'n sehr. Ich hab jetzt den FAZ Artikel nicht gelesen, weil irgendwelche Cookie und Anmeldungen Dinge davorkamen.\n\nAber ja, es war auf jeden Fall 'n interessanter Diskurs, weil man hat ja immer son bisschen befürchtet, hey, AI wird irgendwann ausbrechen und ganz viele Dinge tun. Und das war halt jetzt mal zum Glück, glaub ich, 'n positiver Fall, wo es jetzt nicht ganz so schlimm war. Und hoffentlich investiert man jetzt 'n bisschen mehr Zeit und Gedanken, was das bedeutet. Das einzige Negative ist halt, wenn das aktuelle Modell bleibt, kann man ja nur sozusagen das Angreifermodell oder halt das schützende Modell in dem Fall nutzen, wenn man Teil dieses Security Programm mehr oder weniger ist, was jetzt ist. Aber wenn Du halt irgendwie 'n Mittelstandsunternehmen bist, sag ich mal und halt merkst, dass Du gehackt wirst und dann plötzlich keinen keine 50 GPUs zur Verfügung hast, GILM zu hosten und halt aktuell eine normaler Open AI Kunde bist oder 'n oder auch irgendwie Germanize, sag ich mal, und die plötzlich anfangen, dir nicht die Tools zu geben, dass Du dich selber schützen kannst, ist halt irgendwie 'n bisschen schwierig.\n\nDeswegen auf jeden Fall, ja, sehr, sehr interessant. Ich würd euch definitiv empfehlen, beide Blogpost zu lesen. Es gibt auch mittlerweile relativ gute Youtube Videos von, sag ich mal, Hackern, die sich 'n bisschen mehr mit der Thematik auskennen, wenn euch das interessiert, was die Modelle wirklich gemacht haben. Und hoffentlich kommt am Ende was Positives für uns alle raus.\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Frage ist ja, ob die eigentliche News der Hack von ist oder das Ausbrechen aus der Sandbox, weil das ist ja eigentlich das Also ich würde behaupten, ne, jedes System, was irgendwie online ist, jede Plattform mit genug Zeit und Mühe kann man überall Schwachstellen finden. Und das das Coole daran ist ja eigentlich eher, dass es mittlerweile automatisch geht, aber dass es nicht revolutionär, dass es überhaupt geht. So, ne? Ich glaube, jeder Actor mit genug Zeit und Ressourcen hätte irgendwie Huggingface aufgekriegt. Aber dass halt ein potenziell sehr starkes ungetestetes Modell aus dem Hannes bei OpenAI irgendwie rauskommt, das ist halt irgendwie, also für mich zumindest der viel größere Teil von dieser ganzen Geschichte.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich ich weiß nicht. Also ich glaub, Du wirst es nicht verhindern können, aber ich mein, hätte es besseres Monitoring gegeben Ja, genau. Mit klaren Richtlinien so von wegen, hey, die Sandbox hat an sich kein Internet. Wenn wir irgendwelche Network requests sehen, bitte benachrichtigt und so irgendwie so in dem Sinne. Dann hätte das halt nicht 'n ganzes Wochenende gedauert und die wären halt irgendwie dran gesessen, schweißbaden und hätten gedacht, was passiert hier?\n\nSondern dann wär's halt 10 Minuten gewesen und hätten sich halt entschuldigt. Ja, aber ich meine, ich ich seh's wirklich positiv, dass in dem Fall das Opfer war, weil ich mein, ich weiß das ja aus eigener Erfahrung, ist 'n sehr transparentes Unternehmen, das wirklich das Wohl von allem mehr oder weniger im Sinn hat. Und sie versuchen wirklich jetzt, der Sache aufn Grund zu gehen und wirklich hoffentlich auch mehr zu teilen im Sinne von, können wir die, also was das Modell wirklich ausgeführt hat, teilen? Können wir anderen Research ermöglichen, damit Research zu betreiben, dass wir halt einfach als Ekl System weiterkommen und dass das halt nicht son Angriff war von irgendjemand Böswilligen, der jemand anderes geschadet hat. Ich mein, man weiß jetzt, dass es geht und man wusste es wahrscheinlich auch davor, dass es geht.\n\nUnd ich denk mal, dass wir bis zum Ende vom Jahr vielleicht noch ein, 2 solche Fälle haben werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Böse Zungen haben kommentiert, dass das vielleicht einfach nur Open Ais Antwort ist auf die Kommunikation, wie wie En Tropic die ganze Zeit über Fable und Mythus gesprochen hat, sodass sie so sehr gut darin sind, Security Exploits zu finden und zu fixen und bla. Und es 'n sehr schöner Zufall war, dass jetzt quasi sich sone Livedemo ergeben hat von OpenAis neueste Modell.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich ich glaub nicht. Also schon allein, dass sozusagen Heike Fess den Blogpost 5 Tage vorher veröffentlicht hat, völlig transparent. Hier, hey Leute, wir wurden gehackt. Wir haben keine Ahnung, wer es war. Es war aber eine KI.\n\nHier sind die Dinge, die passiert sind. Hier ist, was wir gemacht haben. Ist jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n Marketing Gag.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hatte den den Blogpost von dem Huggingface CEO 2 Tage später oder einen Tag später war's, glaub ich, nachdem OpenAI gesagt hatte so, ja, das war son Rogemodel von uns, gab's auf LinkedIn diesen Postway ausm Also Du siehst, wie er aus dem Flugzeug quasi 'n Foto macht auf auf den Runway und so schreibt so, ja, ja, er flieht grade nach San Francisco, dieses Rogemodel irgendwie zu besuchen und mal 'n ernstes Wort mit ihm zu reden. Das fand ich son sehr netten Touch irgendwie an dieser ganzen Geschichte. Sprechen wir anstatt über ominöse Models, die nicht veröffentlicht worden sind, über Models, die veröffentlicht\n\nSpeaker 1: k 3 ist jetzt veröffentlicht als Open Waid Modell. Also dieses Modell wurde ja vor 1, 2 Wochen auch vorgestellt. Man Man konnte es testen über die API von MoonShot. Und seit gestern gibt's jetzt das Modell auf ist ein 2.8, also im deutschen Milliardenparameter M0E. Das heißt, fast zweimal so groß wie Chemie k two, hat 1000000 Token Kontext, Visual Understanding.\n\nZusätzlich hat haben sie gestern 3 noch mit veröffentlicht. Einmal flash KDEKDA, was deren Implementierung sozusagen ist, was eine für MOS ist auf und dann noch für, sag ich mal, das, was Open Air ein bisschen gemacht hat mit so, man hat halt eine Sandbox und ich kann 'n Agent drin ausführen. Es ist mit 'nem Report veröffentlicht. Ich hab ihn jetzt noch nicht gelesen, aber das soll sehr gut sein. Also Research haben auf Twitter 'n bisschen geteilt, dass es sehr inhaltsreich definitiv ist.\n\nUnd man sieht auch mehr oder weniger, dass Chemie k 3 mehr oder weniger Chemie k two ist, nur halt größer skaliert. Also mehr Parameter, klar 'n paar kleine Änderungen, aber an sich das das gleiche Modell aber einfach halt skaliert. Und heißt in dem Fall nicht Open Source. Also es gibt keinen Trainingscode, es gibt keine Trainingsdaten, sondern nur die Und die Lizenz der ist auch nicht superpermissive. Also man kann es nutzen, man kann es kommerziell nutzen, man kann es für interne Use Cases nutzen, aber sobald man mehr als 20000000 Dollar im Jahr hat und es hostet, also zum Beispiel wie wie Firworks oder auch wie, ich sag immer, alle Modelprovider, dann braucht man eine 1 spezielles Agreement.\n\nOder wenn ich 100000000 User hab oder 20000000 Millionen, dann brauch ich auch eine spezielle Lizenz. Das ist dann für, keine Ahnung, ich hab irgendwie eine SAS Applikationen, in der hab ich 'n Agent. Wenn die, sag ich mal, Nummer hat, dann brauch ich ja auch eine Lizenz. Es ist jetzt verfügbar auf, man kann das mit WLANLM nutzen, man braucht aber 8 b-Tra 100 NVIDIA GPUs.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hat jetzt nicht jeder rumliegen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also es gibt keine offiziellen Preises, aber es man bewegt sich, wenn man die jetzt sagen würde, zwischen 500 und 1000000, also 1500000. Also wenn Du die einfach so neu kaufst,\n\nSpeaker 0: Mit alle oder beide?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also sagt, 8 8 8 g p use, Nvidia b 300, kostet zwischen 300000 und 500000 to purchase und oder zwischen die 100 Dollar pro Stunde und dann hat man halt natürlich noch 'n Also wenn wenn man's selber hostet, halt alles, was dazugehört.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kannst Du ja nicht reden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Noch, ja. Genau. Soll die Karten ins Datencenter werfen und hoffen, dass was passiert?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Oder man hostet es halt auf der Cloud, da ist es die einhundert Dollar, je nachdem. Das heißt, man kann son WLAN nutzen, wenn ich GPUs irgendwie hab. Oder es gibt's auch auf verschiedenen Start-up- und Hosting Plattformen von Modal über Digital Ocean sogar, Firewallworks, das ist jetzt in C Cursor, auf der Olama Cloud oder sogar bei Dell verfügbar. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hast Du's schon intensiver genutzt? Nee.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also man konnte es ja über die Chemie API nutzen, aber da war die Nachfrage so hoch, dass sie irgendwann mehr oder weniger New Sign ups deaktiviert haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja,\n\nSpeaker 1: das find ich auch. Und ich hab's jetzt bei den Model Provinern, sag ich mal, noch nicht getestet. Ich denk, ich werd's 'n Cursor mal testen übers Wochenende, wenn ich Zeit hab. Aber ich mein, ich war schon, also ich fand das 2 Punkt Sechser Modell schon relativ gut für die Kosten. Und vielleicht noch mal ganz kurz zu den Kosten auch für die ganzen Provider.\n\nMan bewegt sich eben 3 Dollar pro Million Input Tokens und 15 Dollar pro Million Output Tokens Bereich. Also,\n\nSpeaker 0: oder\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich weiß gar nicht, also in den der mittleren Kategorie. Und dafür soll's 'n echt gutes Modell sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bist Du, wenn Du das am Wochenende evaluierst, bist Du fleißiger als die Mitarbeiter, die bei OpenAI am Wochenende offensichtlich ihren Test haben einfach laufen lassen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, vielleicht starte ich auch meinen Run und dann mal schauen, was der Mutoffus wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn wir am nächste Woche in den News setzen, sagen, ja, die Programmierwebsite wurde gehackt am Wochenende von einem autonomen Age und dann.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also ich ich würd jetzt nicht sagen, dass die Mitarbeiter nicht unvorsichtig waren. Ich glaub, das sind einfach halt Themen, die man nicht unbedingt auf 'nem Schirm hat, weil wenn ich irgendwie, ich glaub, ich lass auch jeweils auf\n\nSpeaker 0: jeden Fall, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich lass auch jeweils laufen und mach irgendwas und dann ich monitor halt nicht meinen Network Traffic von meinem Cluster, der halt irgendwie Python ausführt oder so was.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Das war eine gute Woche für offensichtlich. Wir haben nämlich auch den Launch von Opus 5 gesehen, da wollen wir auch noch kurz drüber sprechen. Ich glaub, die ja, die Story von Opus 5 ist son bisschen auch erst mal, wenn man auf den ersten Blick draufguckt. Pricing 1 zu 1 wie bei Opus 4 8 auch, 5 Dollar rein, 25 Dollar raus.\n\nIst damit wieder die Hälfte von Fable 5. Und natürlich in der eigenen Ankündigung, ne, übertrifft irgendwie Fable 5 und übertrifft Typity 5, 6 Zoll in den meisten Benchmarks. Vom Coding Level ungefähr vergleichbar mit dem, was wir von Zoll sehen, mit 'n bisschen mehr Effort vielleicht noch 'n bisschen mehr. Da können wir gleich noch mal im Detail über den Benchmark drüber sprechen. Mein persönlicher Eindruck ist trotzdem, dass es son bisschen token intensiver ist, auch wenn überall steht, dass so Performance und Effizienztreaming irgendwie mit mit Fokus war.\n\nAber das ist ja auch nur Anekdotenwissen, wenn man das selber hier mal probiert. Das gab in dem Announcement Blogpost noch mal sonen eigenen Absatz auch über dieses ganze Security Thema. Ich glaub, da haben Sie auch in der Kommunikation noch mal 'n bisschen extra Wert draufgelegt, nachdem Ihnen das letzte Mal beim Fable launcher so auf die Füße gefallen ist, da sehr ausführlich zu beschreiben, was da jetzt an Capability drin ist und wo so die eingebaut sind. Eben schon gesagt, ne. Es ist nicht immer einfach zu unterscheiden, bist Du grade in, bist Du der Angreifer oder bist Du der Verteidiger?\n\nWeil die Fragen, die Du stellst und die Tests, die Capabilities, die Du brauchst, halt sehr ähnlich sind. Was wir eben, sie halt gesagt haben, na ja, so Scanning ist irgendwie alles okay, Security Fixing ist irgendwie auch okay, aber sobald das irgendwie so an an binary Level Research geht, also das den Eindruck erweckt, dass Du quasi ein geschlossenes System untersuchst, das Du nicht aufmachen kannst, reinzuschauen, dann greifen da die die Guardrails so. Laut ihren Benchmarks trotzdem in der Summe immer noch in weniger Fällen als in Fable 5, aber das bleibt mal abzuwarten, wie sich das so verhält. Ich hab mir auch mal die Benchmarks bei Artificial Analysis angeguckt. Da gibt's sich schon son ähnliches Bild wie das, was Sie auch im eigenen Blogpost angekündigt haben.\n\nAlso Sie spielen da nach wie vor ganz oben in dem Feld mit im Vergleich zu Opus 4 8, aber mit effizienterer Token Useage und mit dem Potenzial, 'n bisschen höher gehen zu können, wenn man eben mehr Afort irgendwie noch reinsteckt. Und ich glaube, und da würd mich mal so deinen Take interessieren, das ist, glaub ich, so das Bild, was sich einfach so in den letzten paar Monaten auch bei den anderen Releases bei immer so abzeichnet, oder? Also sozusagen, sie versuchen auf Biegen und Brechen an dieser Spitze zu sein, auch wenn es bedeutet, dass sie da für für denselben Task irgendwie unglaublich mehr Tokens irgendwie investieren müssten als jetzt 'n 'n oder so. Ich hab immer so den Eindruck, OpenAI versucht son Pareto Optimum zu finden in ihrem Modelangebot und dann Tropic will einfach auf Biegen und Brechen quasi ganz vorne sein. Ich glaub nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also Modell trainieren ist superschwierig. Und Du kannst nicht einfach sagen, hey, wir opfern jetzt 2 Prozent und nutzen nur die wenige Tokens. Also es geht ja, sehr alles Learning und ich brauch ja irgendwelche Signale am Ende, dass der Modell signalisiert, hey, Du hast eine gute Arbeit gemacht und Du hast eine schlechte Arbeit gemacht. Und ich sag mal, bis vor 'n paar Monaten war ja alles in Richtung, hey, wir brauchen einfach bessere Modelle, der Rest ergibt sich von alleine. Und das ganze Token Efficiency Thema kommt ja langsam, also dass wir beides optimieren möchten.\n\nUnd ist da vielleicht schon früher drauf gekommen oder hat das eine höhere Priorität angeordnet oder hat, warum auch immer, deren Trainingpipeline ist von Natur aus schon einfach mehr so orientiert. Ich mein, Sie waren ja die Ersten damals mit den Modellen, vielleicht gehen Sie das Ganze 'n bisschen anders an. Ich würd davon ausgehen, dass wir Opus Modelle sehen in Zukunft, die entweder halt die gleiche Tokenanzahl nutzen und dann trotzdem besser werden oder halt auch 'n bisschen mehr Token sind. Wir haben jetzt auch vermehrt Benchmarks, die wirklich die Token sich anschauen. Und ich glaub, sobald man nicht mehr diese Subscription hat, also bisher als User ist es mir eigentlich egal, ob Opus irgendwie jetzt 50000 Token nutzt oder 70000 Token, weil ich zum einen krieg ich's nicht so richtig mit und zum anderen hab ich meine Subcription und ich nutz die halt und ich komm meistens damit klar.\n\nWenn sich das halt irgendwie ändert und man man jetzt plötzlich per Token bezahlt auch als Entwickler, dann steht Open EA schon besser da und ich glaub, die werden da dran auch arbeiten. Das Interessante, was ich vielleicht noch gesehen hab auf Social Media ist, dass bei allen neuen Releases, die die Menschen sich son bisschen uneinig sind, ist es jetzt besser, ist es schlechter? Ich hab von vielen gelesen, sie gehen jetzt wieder zurück zu, weil's irgendwie den Besseren gefällt und Opus ist son bisschen mehr Gaslighting und halluziniert 'n bisschen mehr. Man kann es zwar dann auch korrigieren und sagen, hey, lass doch lieber so oder so machen. Oder manche gehen auch wieder zurück zu 4 Punkt 8.\n\nIch glaub, zum einen sind's wieder personelle Präferenzen, wie ich halt mit den Modells besser klarkomm. Aber trotzdem ist es nicht mehr immer dieses, ich automatisch zum letzten, zumindest das, was ich seh. Deswegen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Da passt vielleicht ganz gut rein, dass parallel noch 'n sehr umfangreichen Blogpost veröffentlicht hat, den Sie genannt haben, so, für Cloud Opus 5. Das fand ich auch ganz interessant zu lesen, weil Sie wohl, wir verlinken den Blogpost auch noch mal, denn Sie haben wohl massiv den Kontext aufgeräumt. So, also sie haben gesagt, sie haben 80 Prozent ihres irgendwie weggeschmissen. Und das kommt wohl daher, dass viel von dem, was man einfach früher angenommen hat, was in den muss oder auch in die Cloud MD und so weiter, mittlerweile überflüssig ist, ja? Weil durch besseres Training, durch besseres Modelverhalten, durch bessere Tooljustage halt viel davon schon schon funktionieren kann.\n\nAlso wer schon 'n bisschen länger mit dabei ist, der weiß ja, also wir haben, also ich, zumindest glaub viel da draußen, haben ja auch so Sachen wie Cloud m d früher gerne mal so als Memory Bank missbraucht, ja. Und so, okay, ich hab, es gibt hier langfristige Regeln, die sich irgendwie rauskristallisiert haben bei uns. Die schreiben wir jetzt in die Cloud m d rein, damit wir da nicht jedes Mal wieder neu drauf kommen müssen und so. Und die meisten dieser Harneße, Cloud Code ja auch, haben ja mittlerweile eigene Memory Feature, haben eigene Tools explizit dafür, haben eigene Skills für vieles davon. Und so fliegt halt offensichtlich immer mehr bei Intropic da wieder raus, was vorher so fest verdrahtet war.\n\nUnd da gibt's, also Sie haben das supercool beschrieben so, wie Sie einfach beim Aufräumen auch gemerkt haben, dass da teilweise so controllicting Statements irgendwie drin waren. In Ihrem System prompt versus das, was manche von den ad hoc Skills die Cloud dann eben selber noch nutzen kann. Und dann ist es halt son bisschen unberechenbarer geworden so, wer setzt sich da im Zweifelsfall durch, das alles mal son bisschen streamen zu leihen, streamen zu können, wie auch immer, haben sie da wohl ordentlich, ordentlich aufgeräumt. Und ich glaube, das ist mitverantwortlich, warum, ich kann das aus meinen ersten Tests bestätigen, warum sich Opus 5 am Anfang gefühlt sehr anders verhält vielleicht, als man das gewohnt ist und auch auch, wie Du sagst, noch diese, ich glaub, diese persönliche Präferenz entsteht ja ganz oft daraus so, man weiß einzuschätzen, wie dieses Model reagiert und wie man mit ihm reden muss und und bla bla bla. Und ich kann mir vorstellen, dass da jetzt viel auf den Kopf gestellt wurde durch diese ganze Aufräumaktion.\n\nWir schreiben noch son bisschen über, wie Sie jetzt mit umgehen, wie Sie son bisschen effizienteres Tool Calling und Skill Usage machen. Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz interessanter. Kann man sich mal anschauen. Kann man bestimmt auch das eine oder andere für das eigene Set-up übernehmen. Aber wie gesagt, von dem Hannes profitiert man ja gleich schon gleich schon mit.\n\nBei so was würd's mich immer interessieren, ob andere Labs, wie Du grade gesagt hast, ne, am Ende sind ja doch Ansätze vielleicht auch sehr ähnlich. Ob die so was auch schon gemacht haben und einfach nur nicht so darüber gesprochen haben? Oder ob das jetzt einfach was ist, was wir das 1. Mal so wirklich grade bei Opus 5 sehen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich glaub, Du musst, man muss 'n bisschen differenzieren zwischen, ist das 'n Model Thema oder 'n Thema? Also ich geh mal stark davon aus, dass ich, haben ja, also ich, meist schon einen Blogpost von Tarik wahrscheinlich. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: Das geht Cloud Code natürlich, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau. Und sie schreiben ja, hey, wir haben das entfernt und es hat sich verändert dann auf den Benchmarks. Weil sich nichts auf den Benchmarks verändert, heißt ja nicht, dass sich was verändern. Also die das Verhalten kann ja anders sein oder bei den Tasks, die ich mach. Und das eine ist halt 'n Model und ich bin mir sicher, dass die ihr Modell nicht mit dem trainieren, weil dann overfittest Du und dann hast Du gar nichts davon, sag ich mal, sondern das ist ja son mehr son Agent Horness Thema teilweise, wie Du halt möchtest, dass sich das Modell in deinem verhöll.\n\nUnd gutes Beispiel find ich dazu ist PI, also das der der Open Source Hannes von aus Österreich. Ich hab den vergessen, Marius. Der hat ja sehr radikal zu Anfangszeiten gesagt, so, er möchte gar kein System mehr oder weniger. Es waren irgendwie 5 Zeilen, hatte 4 Tools. Also das ist ja so der das beste Beispiel an Radikalität, die in die Richtung, wo jetzt sie mit 'n bisschen gehen.\n\nUnd Pi funktioniert ja auch extrem gut mit mit Opus. Sie waren halt sehr überdefiniert, was eventuell zu den Benchmarks, zu geführt hat, aber wie sie ja schreiben, wenn steht, und Du's schreibst als, hey, bitte nur superkurze Kommentare, dann hast Du halt 2 sich gegensätzliche Instruktionen, was es für das Modell schwieriger macht. Und wahrscheinlich, wenn Du's dann hundertmal laufen lässt, für die Task hast Du wahrscheinlich 60 Prozent für dich, also wie Du's definierst. Und 40 Prozent hast Du trotzdem noch zu lange Kommentare und Du sitzt dann als User da und denkst dir so, ich hab das doch jetzt extra da reingeschrieben, warum macht ihr immer noch diese langen komischen Kommentare? Deswegen ist man einen wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen mehr, den die Nutzer die Möglichkeit zu geben, dass sich der Hahn so verhält, wie er soll.\n\nUnd zum anderen halt hat das Modell auch mittlerweile ja relativ gute Eigenschaften in sich, zu verstehen, okay, was ich jetzt tun soll oder nicht, wo es vielleicht eventuell davor 'n bisschen nicht der Fall war. Ich glaub, 'n 'n interessantes Beispiel war dieses Goblins Thema von GPT, ja, so. Frühere GPT-Fünf Modelle hatten ja son für Goblins irgendwie. Ja, sie haben immer ganz viel über Goblins geredet und haben sich da die hinzugefügt, dass das halt nicht mehr der Fall ist. Und man nutzt halt da sehr viel immer, okay, wie kann ich das son bisschen anpassen?\n\nUnd vielleicht haben sie's jetzt geschafft, dass es einfach nicht mehr so viel benötigt beziehungsweise halt für Crowd Code nicht mehr der Fall ist. Und ich mein, weniger ist immer gut für den Nutzer, weil dann zahlst Du pro am Ende weniger.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich bin grad auch noch mal in dem Blogpost. Ich such diese Einstellung und find sie grade nicht, wo sie son son bisschen auch darüber gesprochen haben, dass da halt am Anfang das Hahn ist halt auch einfach komplexer war, so dem dem Worst Case Szenario halt vorbeugen zu können, ja. Weil als das ganze Ding halt auch noch neuer war, war halt auch so immer die Sorge, mit mit viel Macht kommt viel Verantwortung und Du musst das irgendwie mit viel GarTrails versehen, dass das klappt. Und in den eigenen Tests haben sie wohl gesehen, dass es halt gar nicht notwendig ist, weil auch wenn Du das halt weglässt, diese diese ganzen Katastrophenfälle, die wir uns immer so vorgestellt haben am Anfang auch, ja. Zähl mich da selber rein, ich war auch super besorgt so.\n\nJetzt führ ich hier son Agent aus und wenn der hier irgendwie r m dash r f macht, dann ist ja irgendwie bei mir gleich alles weg. Und das ist ja ehrlicherweise einfach nicht passiert. Also diese ganz, also alles, was man so mitbekommen hat am Anfang, waren ja wirklich eher Geschichten von, okay, da kann man sehen, wie jemand vielleicht sein Set-up son bisschen schief aufgezogen hat und dann ist da 'n bisschen was passiert. Aber dass jetzt hier Coding Agents reihenweise Festplatten formatiert haben oder GitHub Repositorys gelöscht haben, ist ja in der Masse wirklich nicht aufgetreten, so. Von daher cool zu sehen, ja.\n\nCool zu sehen. Alright. Wir können vielleicht ganz kurz noch Inkling anreißen beziehungsweise diese ganze Debatte Modelle und ob wir das jetzt irgendwie brauchen oder nicht. Vielleicht einmal ganz kurz, Inkling von von Thinking Labs. Thinking Labs ist diese, ich wollt grad sagen, Ausgründung, aber es ist ja keine Ausgründung, sondern das ist das neue Lab von Mira Murati, als sie Open AI verlassen hat als CTO und dann was Eigenes gemacht hat.\n\nDie haben jetzt ein vorgestellt mit, Gott, wo hab ich's hier? Über 900000000000 Parameter komplett eigen trainiert, ist jetzt letzte Woche rausgekommen. Model of Experts, Mixe of Experts kennt man. Von daher auch wieder son bisschen, aber es hat sich eben halt so angeschickt als das beste westliche Open wait Model irgendwie dazustehen in den Matchmarks, die aktuell eher von chinesischen Modellen irgendwie dominiert werden. Die Frage ist, braucht man das so?\n\nBrauchen wir diese Modelle wirklich? Ist ist das sinnvoll?\n\nSpeaker 1: War das eine Frage an mich?\n\nSpeaker 0: Das war eine Frage. Also so viele andere Leute sind hier nicht, so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also natürlich, ich mein, man profitiert von beidem. Also ich bin jetzt nicht der derjenige, der's sagt, wir brauchen nur oder wir brauchen nur irgendwie Models. Beide haben guten Grund zu existieren. Beide haben Use Cases. Es ist für beide nachvollziehbar, warum ich 'n Modell nicht irgendwie öffentlich zur Verfügung oder halt als Modell releasen möchte oder auch schon.\n\nIch glaub für Thinking Labs als als Company, wenn ich's richtig versteh, Sie haben ja ganz viel Infrastrukturservices auch und vor allem Learning Training. Und sie verfolgen, glaub ich, eher den Aspekt so, hey, wir helfen Unternehmen, die ihre eigenen Modelle trainieren wollen, wirklich in, dass sie das machen können. Und damit Du 'n Modell trainieren kannst oder halt weiter trainieren kannst, brauchst Du ja erst mal 'n Modell. Und deswegen macht das ja durchaus Sinn für sie, diesen Ansatz zu gehen, dass sie dann halt als ihre Produkte oder halt mit das zusammen mit Unternehmen weitere Modelle trainieren können.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab mich am Wochenende noch mal son bisschen in diese ganze Diskussion Modelle eingelesen und bin über einen Absatz gestolpert, der gesagt hat, na ja, das gap zwischen Open Way und nicht Open Way Modellen ist so mittlerweile vielleicht bei 4 Monaten angekommen, ja. Und ich kann mich daran erinnern, dass wir, glaub ich, letztes Jahr diese Diskussion schon mal geführt haben und da waren das noch so 6 Plus Monate. Und gefühlt sehen wir halt grade, wie sich dieses Gap irgendwie immer mehr schließt. Wahrscheinlich wird es nie ganz geschlossen werden so, ja? Es wird immer son son 'n gewissen Vorsprung da da geben, aber ich frag mich, was über was auf Dauer so der der Vorsprung von diesen ganzen propitären Labs dann halt irgendwie sein kann, ja?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich würd jetzt nicht sagen, dass der Grund ist, dass diese Modelle released werden, dass sie Vorsprung gegenüber Open Rates haben. Also es gibt viele nachvollziehbare Gründe, warum ich 'n Modell nicht jetzt irgendwie als Open Rates releasen möchte von, ich hab Millionen an Research investiert und möchte halt, bin halt 'n Unternehmen und muss halt irgendwie Geld verdienen und möchte das halt als Service bereitstellen zu weiteren Themen. Und ich glaub, das also ich mein, ist doch an sich positiv, wenn man beides mehr oder weniger zur Verfügung hat. Wenn Du halt, sag ich mal, dich auf ein Modell konzentrierst oder auf eine Modell Family, hast Du halt viel mehr Möglichkeiten, diese zu optimieren und halt darüber vielleicht bessere oder halt auch besser zu skalieren und darüber bessere, sag ich mal, bereitzustellen. Und am Ende ist es ja wie in jedem Markt, umso mehr Konkurrenz ich hab, umso besser ist das ja für den den Endnutzer.\n\nUnd wir sehen's ja jetzt mit, okay, ist k 3. Es ist relativ kosteneffizient und was wahrscheinlich auf mittel langfristiger Sicht dazu führen wird, dass alle wahrscheinlich auch mehr bisschen in Effizienz investieren werden und man dann darüber auch günstigere Preise wieder hat.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also das ist wahrscheinlich richtig oder garantiert richtig, ne, konkurrenz belebt so das Geschäft. Und ich glaub auch, dass wir immer mehr zu so Set ups gehen werden, wo halt krass unterschiedliche Modelle im Einsatz sind, ja. Also dass wir weniger sehen, dass jetzt, weiß nicht, Du hast vorhin so das SAS Unternehmen angesprochen, was jetzt hier vielleicht seinen Chemie benutzt und das irgendwann lizenzieren muss oder so. Aber vielleicht dadrin dann halt auch für unterschiedliche Use Cases sehr bewusst sehr unterschiedliche Modelle, ja. Bei Sachen, die halt irgendwie sind, vielleicht was Kleines, lokal Gehostetes, da irgendwie Kategorisierungen mitzumachen für den generischen Chatbot, der im Zweifelsfall irgendwie alles beantworten können muss.\n\nVielleicht 'n größeres profitäres Modell, so. Ich hab das, also ich seh das ehrlicherweise noch nicht so häufig so, aber es klingt halt so ultralogisch eigentlich, wenn man drüber nachdenkt, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also ich mein, das ganze Rautehema kommt ja wieder hoch. Wir hatten das ja mit, ich glaub, GPT 5 Wars, wo Sie 'n Chat GPT diesen haben, der dann dynamisch die Anfragen schicken soll. Wir haben das jetzt wieder in Curseur, die haben ja 'n Routourlease, dann ich glaub, weitere haben hat, glaub, auch jetzt 'n Router. Also wir gehen wieder im, hey, Du hast halt diesen Router, der dann das zu den verschiedenen Modellen? Ah, Open Router hat, glaub auch jetzt\n\nSpeaker 0: Open Router.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Genau. Und dann gab's aus Japan mit, glaub ich, heißen die, die diesen Agent Router oder irgendwie so was haben, der dann verschiedene Modelle je nach Radio nutzt. Sehen wir wieder. Ich mein, am Ende hast Du immer wieder dieses Spiel zwischen, wir werden besser, wir müssen's kostengünstiger machen, wir werden besser, wir werden's kostengünstiger machen.\n\nUnd ganz, ganz am Ende wird wird es nicht ein super Riesenmodell sein, weil wir einfach die dafür ja nicht haben. Wer mit Strom und Elektrizität und Chips unendlich zu verfügbar, dann klar, dann würde es keinen Grund geben, warum wir kleine Modelle trainieren müssten, sag ich mal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja, also sind ja trotzdem auch einfach schneller. Also selbst wenn Du alles hast, sind's ja trotzdem,\n\nSpeaker 1: ne. Ja, aber mit MOIs und anderen Innovationen ist es ja nicht mehr so, dass 'n großes Modell unbedingt langsamer ist als 'n kleinereres Modell. Ja. Und deswegen, ich bin mal gespannt, was das, sag ich mal, im Bereich sich tun wird, weil es ist extrem teuer, son Foundation Modell zu trainieren, aber es fühlt sich im Verhältnis kostengünstiger an, son Routermodell zu trainieren. Und eventuell werden wir in naher Zukunft dann, sag ich mal, auch mehrere Router haben oder vielleicht haben wir Unternehmen, die sich nur auf als als Business Use Case darauf fokussieren, hey, ich trainier diesen Router, weil ich hab verschiedene Domänen in meinem Unternehmen und ich möchte halt den das bestmögliche Ergebnis dafür haben und dass halt 'n normaler Smalltalk wie hey oder was Du machst oder keine Ahnung, irgendwelche Dokumente lesen, halt irgendwie zu 'nem kleineren, kostengünstigeren Modell geht und halt für irgendwelches komplexes long running komplett autonom Projekt erstellen, man halt das größere Modell nutzt und Du als Kunde dann wahrscheinlich wieder weniger das siehst.\n\nUnd aber ich glaub auch hier wieder, ist wieder dieses Subskription Modell, weil man hat immer dieses, ich zumindest, dieses Innerliche, hey, ich will immer das größte und beste Modell nutzen, wenn ich die Möglichkeit hab, weil dann ist ja das Ergebnis besser oder halt zumindest im Durchschnitt ist das Ergebnis besser oder gleich gut. Und wenn man halt nicht unendlich viele Kosten hat, dann bin ich auch, hab ich nicht die son mir son lauter anzuschauen. Und ich glaub, die werden sich halt dieses Jahr verändern, dass halt die Kosten zu hoch werden für die Unternehmen, vielleicht die, weniger User haben. Und dann war das auf jeden Fall interessanter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ich glaub, da ist auch son psychologischer Punkt dabei. Also ne, Du hast ja auch gesagt, der der Router bei GPT 5. Ich war damals auch zufrieden. Es war so ungewohnt, son bisschen diese Kontrolle aus der Hand geben zu müssen, ne. Wer führt jetzt hier eigentlich dieses Ding aus, was ich haben will und krieg ich wirklich das beste Ergebnis zurück?\n\nAber wenn man das mal son bisschen genutzt hat und da Trust reinhat, kann ich mir schon auch vorstellen, ja, dass halt dein dein Agent, dein Hannes dann, keine Ahnung, für dich so Entscheidungen trifft und hat, na ja, Du willst jetzt hier, weiß ich nicht, nur deinen LinkedIn Post gepollet haben so. Das kriegen wir auch mit 'nem kleinen Model hin, so sprachliche Korrekturen. Boah, Du musst dir son Security Ding fixen. Da werfen wir mal lieber drauf irgendwie, was wir haben, so, ja. Und wie Du sagst, vielleicht auch 'n cooler Business Use Case, das einfach für so anbieten zu können, da so Feintuning drauf zu machen.\n\nUnd wir machen 'n Router, der genau für euch und auf eure Use Cases und mit euren Anforderungen so zusammenarbeitet. Da gibt's\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich glaub, aber\n\nSpeaker 0: noch mehr.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub, das Problem halt wie bei allem ist, wenn Du alle 2 bis 4 Wochen 'n neues Modell hast, das besser und günstiger ist oder besser und gleich gut, dann kannst Du nicht diese trainieren, weil die, das verschiebt sich einfach so schnell, dass in der Zeit, wo Du den neuen trainiert hast oder erstellt hast und evaluiert hast, das neue Modell da ist und dann rennst Du halt immer 'n bisschen hinterher. Deswegen ist ja das ganze Feintuning auch 'n bisschen, sag ich mal, zurückgegangen. Aber ja, bleibt spannend. Ich bin positiv. Und glaub, als erstes praktisches Beispiel, wo das schon weniger interessant ist, wenn ich dann Freunde und Familie denk, die jetzt irgendwie die Geminar App nutzen, denen ist es scheißegal, ob da Flash oder pro steht.\n\nDie Du stellst halt deine eine Frage oder was Du halt darüber reden möchtest und Du kriegst 'n Ergebnis zurück da. Die würden da jetzt nicht extra reingehen und hey, ich, okay. Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann letzte Frage, kommst Du eigentlich zur Programmierkorn?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Glaub's nicht? Ach, okay. Bisher noch nicht. Okay, bisher noch nicht. Wenn ihr da draußen trotzdem kommen wollt, auch wenn ihr vielleicht nicht die Chance habt, Philipp zu treffen, könnt ihr das nur machen.\n\nWir haben grade, glaub ich, noch das letzte Drittel der Tickets ungefähr im Verkauf und dann ist auch schon bald wieder Ende Gelände. Von daher noch mal der kleine Servicehinweis, wer noch keins hat, sollte das da vielleicht zeitnah drum kümmern und vielleicht überreden wir Philipp bis dahin noch, dass er auch kommt. Wenn nicht, müssen wir so Wetten, dass? Mäßig die die die Außenwette irgendwie machen und Philipp zuschalten. Ja, okay, das war jetzt auch wieder son Witz für die Älteren.\n\nDas Wetten, dass ist auch schon datet, glaub ich mittlerweile. Alright, dann sind wir durch für diese Woche. 1000 Dank Philipp für deine Zeit. 1000 Dank für alle da draußen, die zugehört haben. Wenn ihr Fragen, Anmeldungen, Anmerkungen, Kritik, was auch immer habt, dann immer gerne Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder hinterlasst gerne Kommentare auf allen Plattformen, wo ihr uns zuhört.\n\nWir lesen immer gerne fleißig mit und freuen uns darüber. Bis denn. Tschau, tschau.",[18855,18868,18873,18880,18893,18905,18915,18920,18932,18945,18958,18971,18983,18996,19009,19022,19032,19045,19058,19071,19076,19083,19096,19105,19114,19127,19140,19153,19164,19169,19176,19181,19186,19191,19195,19203,19213,19219,19224,19228,19241,19246,19249,19255,19260,19265,19270,19277,19282,19287,19298,19310,19323,19336,19349,19362,19375,19388,19396,19409,19422,19434,19446,19457,19464,19468,19481,19494,19506,19519,19526,19539,19551,19563,19576,19582,19586,19593,19605,19616,19629,19642,19648,19661,19668,19681,19685,19696,19703,19709,19720,19731,19744,19757,19764,19768,19772,19784,19792,19797,19800,19812,19825,19837],{"sentences":18856,"speaker":112,"num_words":18867,"start":109,"end":338},[18857,18859,18861,18863,18865],{"text":18858,"start":109,"end":157},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu AI News in Kalenderwoche 31 26.",{"text":18860,"start":161,"end":241},"Und wie ihr sicherlich alle grade gehört habt, bin ich nicht Dennis und ich bin auch nicht Fabi, denn die beiden sind im Urlaub.",{"text":18862,"start":244,"end":259},"Dennis sitzt irgendwo am Meer.",{"text":18864,"start":259,"end":314},"Ich weiß gar nicht, wo Fabi ist, müssen wir kurz Instagram stalken bei ihm.",{"text":18866,"start":319,"end":338},"Aber Philipp hält mir die Treue.",60,{"sentences":18869,"speaker":112,"num_words":18872,"start":338,"end":370},[18870],{"text":18871,"start":338,"end":370},"Hallo Philipp, schön, dass wir da am Start wissen.",9,{"sentences":18874,"speaker":91,"num_words":18879,"start":375,"end":443},[18875,18877],{"text":18876,"start":375,"end":404},"Hat Dennis 'n öffentliches Instagram Profil zum Stalken?",{"text":18878,"start":409,"end":443},"Oder war das jetzt eine Aufforderung für an die Zuhörer?",18,{"sentences":18881,"speaker":112,"num_words":18892,"start":448,"end":615},[18882,18884,18886,18888,18890],{"text":18883,"start":448,"end":469},"Also Dennis hat auch ein Instagram Profil, ja.",{"text":18885,"start":472,"end":498},"Ich glaub, da weiß nicht, wie öffentlich das ist.",{"text":18887,"start":498,"end":537},"Dennis sogar 'n TikTok Profil, wo man abgefahrene Sachen von ihm findet.",{"text":18889,"start":541,"end":587},"Da da ist vielleicht die die Schnitzeljagd der Woche für alle Zuhörerinnen da draußen.",{"text":18891,"start":587,"end":615},"Können Sie's gerne mal an Dennis wenden.",50,{"sentences":18894,"speaker":112,"num_words":18904,"start":619,"end":749},[18895,18897,18899,18901,18903],{"text":18896,"start":619,"end":641},"Vielleicht gibt's Urlaub, Snapshot, keine Ahnung.",{"text":18898,"start":646,"end":702},"Abgesehen von Urlaub wollen wir sprechen über, über Chemie, über Opos und über all der Dinge mehr.",{"text":18900,"start":705,"end":721},"Wir starten direkt rein mit.",{"text":18902,"start":725,"end":743},"Die wollen viel Geld von OpenAI.",{"text":750,"start":748,"end":749},35,{"sentences":18906,"speaker":91,"num_words":18904,"start":752,"end":856},[18907,18909,18911,18913],{"text":18908,"start":752,"end":762},"Die wollen nicht viel Geld.",{"text":18910,"start":762,"end":794},"Die FAZ hat mal wieder 'n interessanten Artikelstitel gewählt.",{"text":18912,"start":794,"end":820},"Ich mein, es ist nicht mehr in den News.",{"text":18914,"start":820,"end":856},"Also ich glaub, wir sind 'n bisschen hinterher jetzt in dem Fall.",{"sentences":18916,"speaker":112,"num_words":18919,"start":860,"end":893},[18917],{"text":18918,"start":860,"end":893},"Aber wir kommen mit der Tiefenanalyse hinten raus noch mal.",10,{"sentences":18921,"speaker":91,"num_words":18931,"start":898,"end":1185},[18922,18923,18925,18927,18929],{"text":902,"start":898,"end":899},{"text":18924,"start":899,"end":999},"Ja, aber also wenn ihr's nicht mitbekommen habt, vielleicht habt ihr's in der Tagesschau sogar gesehen oder im Spiegel, was ja sehr selten der Fall ist, dass deutsche Nachrichten über KI reden.",{"text":18926,"start":999,"end":1040},"Meistens immer nicht so positiv, würd ich mal sagen und nicht so euphorisch.",{"text":18928,"start":1044,"end":1097},"Und das ist in dem Fall auch so, aber ich glaub, diesmal ist es sogar mehr oder weniger 'n bisschen gerechtfertigt.",{"text":18930,"start":1101,"end":1185},"Und zwar am sechzehnten Juli, also fast vor 2 Wochen, hat Hingface 'n Blogpost veröffentlicht, der hieß security In interessanten Satz, dass es.",90,{"sentences":18933,"speaker":91,"num_words":18944,"start":1185,"end":1585},[18934,18936,18938,18940,18942],{"text":18935,"start":1185,"end":1276},"Also Sie haben festgestellt, dass der Hack nicht durch irgendwie 'n Menschen oder durch Bots oder durch was anderes, sondern wirklich durch 'n KI Agenten und komplett autonom.",{"text":18937,"start":1279,"end":1339},"Und sie schreiben halt in 'nem Blogpost 'n bisschen zu, okay, was sie gemacht haben, was das bedeutet und gerne lesen.",{"text":18939,"start":1343,"end":1455},"Und was interessant war, hat dann 5 Tage später am einundzwanzigsten Juli 'n Blogpost veröffentlicht, wo sie schreiben, ups, wir haben Hugging Face, sag ich mal gehackt, also Open AI in Hugging Face Partner.",{"text":18941,"start":1459,"end":1513},"Und da haben sie dann disclosed, dass sie gehackt hat beziehungsweise ein nicht veröffentlichtes Open AI Modell gehackt hat.",{"text":18943,"start":1517,"end":1585},"Ich würd das mal ganz kurz so anfangen, wie sie oder wie Hingeface gehackt wurde und was dann, sag ich mal, Hingeface dagegen gemacht hat.",127,{"sentences":18946,"speaker":91,"num_words":18957,"start":1585,"end":1974},[18947,18949,18951,18953,18955],{"text":18948,"start":1585,"end":1605},"Und zwar hat OpenEA ihr Modell evaluiert.",{"text":18950,"start":1609,"end":1653},"Also man weiß aktuell nicht, welches Modell, es waren verschiedene Modelle auf Exploit Jim.",{"text":18952,"start":1653,"end":1775},"Und Exploit Jim ist mehr oder weniger eigentlich 'n relativ cooler Benchmark, wo Modelle eine CWI Beschreibung bekommt und dann sozusagen versuchen sollen, diese mehr oder weniger zu implementieren und umzusetzen und zu detekten, sodass sie halt das System exploeuten können.",{"text":18954,"start":1775,"end":1898},"Und OpenAI ist Modell, dachte sich, anstatt, dass ich jetzt irgendwie versuch, den C wie umzusetzen, versuch ich, hulking festzuhacken und die Lösung von Exploit Jim zu bekommen, dass ich sozusagen das richtige Ergebnis am Ende hab.",{"text":18956,"start":1901,"end":1974},"Und in diesem Zug hat es, also Open Air schreibt von, es hat irgendwie investiert, aus der Open Air Sandbox mehr oder weniger auszubrechen.",123,{"sentences":18959,"speaker":91,"num_words":18970,"start":1978,"end":2390},[18960,18962,18964,18966,18968],{"text":18961,"start":1978,"end":2025},"Also sie hat 'n Open AI Model lief in der Sandbox mit dem Agent drin.",{"text":18963,"start":2025,"end":2148},"Und das hat er's geschafft, aus diesem Agent auszubrechen und dann mehr oder weniger über verschiedene Security Lücken ganz am Ende irgendwann in das System zu kommen und sich dort zu holen, damit sie dann mehr oder weniger die die Lösungen lesen kann.",{"text":18965,"start":2148,"end":2174},"Das Ganze ist über das komplette Wochenende passiert.",{"text":18967,"start":2177,"end":2237},"Das heißt, auf OpenAI Seite war interessanterweise kein Monitoring oder irgendwie so was da, was einige Fragen aufwürfen würde.",{"text":18969,"start":2237,"end":2390},"Ich mein, wenn man so sehr starke Modelle irgendwie testet, die in 'nem Benchmark, wo sie irgendwelche Exploits herausfinden sollen, sollte man eventuell doch 'n bisschen mehr Monitoring haben, wie zum Beispiel, hey, ich lass das ohne Internet laufen, warum hab ich da plötzlich ganz viel Traffic, der irgendwie on gibt?",136,{"sentences":18972,"speaker":91,"num_words":18982,"start":2390,"end":2752},[18973,18974,18976,18978,18980],{"text":2395,"start":2390,"end":2394},{"text":18975,"start":2397,"end":2473},"Und deshalb war der ganze Hack mehr oder weniger unbeaufsichtigt und ob mir wahrscheinlich 'n Tag danach gemerkt so, ey, ups, vielleicht waren wir das.",{"text":18977,"start":2476,"end":2592},"Und was ganz interessant ist, wenn man sich den Heiligen Facebook Blog postet, so liest, schreiben sie halt, okay, sie haben das gemerkt, dass das Modell ist, dass halt irgendwelche aus ausgeführt werden, dass halt ganz viel ganz schnell mehr oder weniger passiert.",{"text":18979,"start":2595,"end":2706},"Und sie haben halt dann versucht, mit KI und Modellen dagegen zu erarbeiten, aber sie wurden von blockiert, weil das der die Rails halt mehr oder weniger nicht unterscheiden konnte zwischen, ich bin ein Angreifer Ja, ja.",{"text":18981,"start":2709,"end":2752},"Und ich versuche das mehr oder weniger der Verteidiger und versuche das mehr oder weniger nachzuvollziehen.",122,{"sentences":18984,"speaker":91,"num_words":18995,"start":2755,"end":3221},[18985,18987,18989,18991,18993],{"text":18986,"start":2755,"end":2902},"Und hat dann im selben Zug, weil sie halt darüber nicht mehr weitergekommen sind, hatten sie zum Glück GLM, also 'n Open Waid Modell offen im Endpoint bereitgestellt und haben dann GLM beziehungsweise das Open Waid Modell genutzt, halt mehr oder weniger das Open AI Modell wieder auszusperren auf Ihrer Seite.",{"text":18988,"start":2905,"end":2997},"Ich mein, das Positive hier ist, dass es kein melisches Hack im Sinne war, der halt irgendwelche böswilligen Absichten am Ende hatte, dass halt irgendwelche Dinge abgeschaltet werden, irgendwelche Userdaten gestohlen und sonstiges Zeug.",{"text":18990,"start":3000,"end":3052},"Aber ich weiß nicht, es zeigt halt 2 Dinge, ganz klar, dass die Modelle extrem gut sind in Security Lücken finden.",{"text":18992,"start":3056,"end":3101},"Und halt, dass dieses Security Konzept, was man eventuell aktuell verfolgt oder hat, 'n bisschen schwierig ist.",{"text":18994,"start":3101,"end":3221},"Und es gibt so, ich sag mal, in den letzten Wochen gab's son paar Meinungen auf beiden Seiten von, wir brauchen mehr Modelle und Modelle sind böse und mit dem ganzen Security, wir dürfen die Modelle nicht releasen, wir brauchen mehr Guardrails.",165,{"sentences":18997,"speaker":91,"num_words":19008,"start":3224,"end":3533},[18998,19000,19002,19004,19006],{"text":18999,"start":3224,"end":3289},"Weiß jetzt selber nicht, was die richtige Lösung ist, aber ist auf jeden Fall, ich sag mal interessant, weil Huggingface und Openia jetzt mehr zusammenarbeiten.",{"text":19001,"start":3294,"end":3312},"Daher kommt auch diese 100000000 Claim.",{"text":19003,"start":3316,"end":3473},"Claim, also der CEO von Huggingface hat mehr oder weniger von aufgefordertAI gefordert oder gefragt, dass sie halt 100000000 Dollar in für diese Forschung oder Zusammenarbeit halt bereitstellen können, dass unabhängige Forscher mehr oder weniger auch Research betreiben können und halt nicht das bezahlen müssen und nicht so, hey, als Schadensersatz wollen wir jetzt 100000000.",{"text":19005,"start":3473,"end":3488},"Das ist halt wieder 'n sehr.",{"text":19007,"start":3492,"end":3533},"Ich hab jetzt den FAZ Artikel nicht gelesen, weil irgendwelche Cookie und Anmeldungen Dinge davorkamen.",107,{"sentences":19010,"speaker":91,"num_words":19021,"start":3537,"end":4013},[19011,19013,19015,19017,19019],{"text":19012,"start":3537,"end":3609},"Aber ja, es war auf jeden Fall 'n interessanter Diskurs, weil man hat ja immer son bisschen befürchtet, hey, AI wird irgendwann ausbrechen und ganz viele Dinge tun.",{"text":19014,"start":3609,"end":3660},"Und das war halt jetzt mal zum Glück, glaub ich, 'n positiver Fall, wo es jetzt nicht ganz so schlimm war.",{"text":19016,"start":3660,"end":3695},"Und hoffentlich investiert man jetzt 'n bisschen mehr Zeit und Gedanken, was das bedeutet.",{"text":19018,"start":3698,"end":3805},"Das einzige Negative ist halt, wenn das aktuelle Modell bleibt, kann man ja nur sozusagen das Angreifermodell oder halt das schützende Modell in dem Fall nutzen, wenn man Teil dieses Security Programm mehr oder weniger ist, was jetzt ist.",{"text":19020,"start":3805,"end":4013},"Aber wenn Du halt irgendwie 'n Mittelstandsunternehmen bist, sag ich mal und halt merkst, dass Du gehackt wirst und dann plötzlich keinen keine 50 GPUs zur Verfügung hast, GILM zu hosten und halt aktuell eine normaler Open AI Kunde bist oder 'n oder auch irgendwie Germanize, sag ich mal, und die plötzlich anfangen, dir nicht die Tools zu geben, dass Du dich selber schützen kannst, ist halt irgendwie 'n bisschen schwierig.",173,{"sentences":19023,"speaker":91,"num_words":18867,"start":4017,"end":4177},[19024,19026,19028,19030],{"text":19025,"start":4017,"end":4039},"Deswegen auf jeden Fall, ja, sehr, sehr interessant.",{"text":19027,"start":4043,"end":4066},"Ich würd euch definitiv empfehlen, beide Blogpost zu lesen.",{"text":19029,"start":4066,"end":4150},"Es gibt auch mittlerweile relativ gute Youtube Videos von, sag ich mal, Hackern, die sich 'n bisschen mehr mit der Thematik auskennen, wenn euch das interessiert, was die Modelle wirklich gemacht haben.",{"text":19031,"start":4153,"end":4177},"Und hoffentlich kommt am Ende was Positives für uns alle raus.",{"sentences":19033,"speaker":112,"num_words":19044,"start":4181,"end":4519},[19034,19036,19038,19040,19042],{"text":19035,"start":4181,"end":4307},"Die Frage ist ja, ob die eigentliche News der Hack von ist oder das Ausbrechen aus der Sandbox, weil das ist ja eigentlich das Also ich würde behaupten, ne, jedes System, was irgendwie online ist, jede Plattform mit genug Zeit und Mühe kann man überall Schwachstellen finden.",{"text":19037,"start":4310,"end":4376},"Und das das Coole daran ist ja eigentlich eher, dass es mittlerweile automatisch geht, aber dass es nicht revolutionär, dass es überhaupt geht.",{"text":19039,"start":4376,"end":4383},"So, ne?",{"text":19041,"start":4383,"end":4423},"Ich glaube, jeder Actor mit genug Zeit und Ressourcen hätte irgendwie Huggingface aufgekriegt.",{"text":19043,"start":4427,"end":4519},"Aber dass halt ein potenziell sehr starkes ungetestetes Modell aus dem Hannes bei OpenAI irgendwie rauskommt, das ist halt irgendwie, also für mich zumindest der viel größere Teil von dieser ganzen Geschichte.",117,{"sentences":19046,"speaker":91,"num_words":19057,"start":4522,"end":4741},[19047,19049,19051,19053,19055],{"text":19048,"start":4522,"end":4532},"Ja, ich ich weiß nicht.",{"text":19050,"start":4532,"end":4583},"Also ich glaub, Du wirst es nicht verhindern können, aber ich mein, hätte es besseres Monitoring gegeben Ja, genau.",{"text":19052,"start":4586,"end":4625},"Mit klaren Richtlinien so von wegen, hey, die Sandbox hat an sich kein Internet.",{"text":19054,"start":4625,"end":4674},"Wenn wir irgendwelche Network requests sehen, bitte benachrichtigt und so irgendwie so in dem Sinne.",{"text":19056,"start":4674,"end":4741},"Dann hätte das halt nicht 'n ganzes Wochenende gedauert und die wären halt irgendwie dran gesessen, schweißbaden und hätten gedacht, was passiert hier?",76,{"sentences":19059,"speaker":91,"num_words":19070,"start":4745,"end":5124},[19060,19062,19064,19066,19068],{"text":19061,"start":4745,"end":4778},"Sondern dann wär's halt 10 Minuten gewesen und hätten sich halt entschuldigt.",{"text":19063,"start":4781,"end":4897},"Ja, aber ich meine, ich ich seh's wirklich positiv, dass in dem Fall das Opfer war, weil ich mein, ich weiß das ja aus eigener Erfahrung, ist 'n sehr transparentes Unternehmen, das wirklich das Wohl von allem mehr oder weniger im Sinn hat.",{"text":19065,"start":4897,"end":4984},"Und sie versuchen wirklich jetzt, der Sache aufn Grund zu gehen und wirklich hoffentlich auch mehr zu teilen im Sinne von, können wir die, also was das Modell wirklich ausgeführt hat, teilen?",{"text":19067,"start":4988,"end":5083},"Können wir anderen Research ermöglichen, damit Research zu betreiben, dass wir halt einfach als Ekl System weiterkommen und dass das halt nicht son Angriff war von irgendjemand Böswilligen, der jemand anderes geschadet hat.",{"text":19069,"start":5083,"end":5124},"Ich mein, man weiß jetzt, dass es geht und man wusste es wahrscheinlich auch davor, dass es geht.",138,{"sentences":19072,"speaker":91,"num_words":19075,"start":5127,"end":5174},[19073],{"text":19074,"start":5127,"end":5174},"Und ich denk mal, dass wir bis zum Ende vom Jahr vielleicht noch ein, 2 solche Fälle haben werden.",19,{"sentences":19077,"speaker":112,"num_words":19082,"start":5177,"end":5365},[19078,19080],{"text":19079,"start":5177,"end":5305},"Böse Zungen haben kommentiert, dass das vielleicht einfach nur Open Ais Antwort ist auf die Kommunikation, wie wie En Tropic die ganze Zeit über Fable und Mythus gesprochen hat, sodass sie so sehr gut darin sind, Security Exploits zu finden und zu fixen und bla.",{"text":19081,"start":5309,"end":5365},"Und es 'n sehr schöner Zufall war, dass jetzt quasi sich sone Livedemo ergeben hat von OpenAis neueste Modell.",64,{"sentences":19084,"speaker":91,"num_words":19095,"start":5369,"end":5477},[19085,19087,19089,19091,19093],{"text":19086,"start":5369,"end":5379},"Ja, ich ich glaub nicht.",{"text":19088,"start":5379,"end":5426},"Also schon allein, dass sozusagen Heike Fess den Blogpost 5 Tage vorher veröffentlicht hat, völlig transparent.",{"text":19090,"start":5430,"end":5447},"Hier, hey Leute, wir wurden gehackt.",{"text":19092,"start":5451,"end":5466},"Wir haben keine Ahnung, wer es war.",{"text":19094,"start":5466,"end":5477},"Es war aber eine KI.",39,{"sentences":19097,"speaker":91,"num_words":19104,"start":5481,"end":5532},[19098,19100,19102],{"text":19099,"start":5481,"end":5496},"Hier sind die Dinge, die passiert sind.",{"text":19101,"start":5496,"end":5511},"Hier ist, was wir gemacht haben.",{"text":19103,"start":5514,"end":5532},"Ist jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n Marketing Gag.",20,{"sentences":19106,"speaker":112,"num_words":19113,"start":5536,"end":5837},[19107,19109,19111],{"text":19108,"start":5536,"end":5764},"Ich hatte den den Blogpost von dem Huggingface CEO 2 Tage später oder einen Tag später war's, glaub ich, nachdem OpenAI gesagt hatte so, ja, das war son Rogemodel von uns, gab's auf LinkedIn diesen Postway ausm Also Du siehst, wie er aus dem Flugzeug quasi 'n Foto macht auf auf den Runway und so schreibt so, ja, ja, er flieht grade nach San Francisco, dieses Rogemodel irgendwie zu besuchen und mal 'n ernstes Wort mit ihm zu reden.",{"text":19110,"start":5764,"end":5796},"Das fand ich son sehr netten Touch irgendwie an dieser ganzen Geschichte.",{"text":19112,"start":5798,"end":5837},"Sprechen wir anstatt über ominöse Models, die nicht veröffentlicht worden sind, über Models, die veröffentlicht",106,{"sentences":19115,"speaker":91,"num_words":19126,"start":5841,"end":6033},[19116,19118,19120,19122,19124],{"text":19117,"start":5841,"end":5866},"k 3 ist jetzt veröffentlicht als Open Waid Modell.",{"text":19119,"start":5866,"end":5896},"Also dieses Modell wurde ja vor 1, 2 Wochen auch vorgestellt.",{"text":19121,"start":5896,"end":5927},"Man Man konnte es testen über die API von MoonShot.",{"text":19123,"start":5931,"end":5978},"Und seit gestern gibt's jetzt das Modell auf ist ein 2.8, also im deutschen Milliardenparameter M0E.",{"text":19125,"start":5982,"end":6033},"Das heißt, fast zweimal so groß wie Chemie k two, hat 1000000 Token Kontext, Visual Understanding.",62,{"sentences":19128,"speaker":91,"num_words":19139,"start":6037,"end":6279},[19129,19131,19133,19135,19137],{"text":19130,"start":6037,"end":6059},"Zusätzlich hat haben sie gestern 3 noch mit veröffentlicht.",{"text":19132,"start":6064,"end":6184},"Einmal flash KDEKDA, was deren Implementierung sozusagen ist, was eine für MOS ist auf und dann noch für, sag ich mal, das, was Open Air ein bisschen gemacht hat mit so, man hat halt eine Sandbox und ich kann 'n Agent drin ausführen.",{"text":19134,"start":6187,"end":6204},"Es ist mit 'nem Report veröffentlicht.",{"text":19136,"start":6204,"end":6236},"Ich hab ihn jetzt noch nicht gelesen, aber das soll sehr gut sein.",{"text":19138,"start":6236,"end":6279},"Also Research haben auf Twitter 'n bisschen geteilt, dass es sehr inhaltsreich definitiv ist.",85,{"sentences":19141,"speaker":91,"num_words":19152,"start":6279,"end":6612},[19142,19144,19146,19148,19150],{"text":19143,"start":6279,"end":6333},"Und man sieht auch mehr oder weniger, dass Chemie k 3 mehr oder weniger Chemie k two ist, nur halt größer skaliert.",{"text":19145,"start":6337,"end":6383},"Also mehr Parameter, klar 'n paar kleine Änderungen, aber an sich das das gleiche Modell aber einfach halt skaliert.",{"text":19147,"start":6386,"end":6406},"Und heißt in dem Fall nicht Open Source.",{"text":19149,"start":6410,"end":6464},"Also es gibt keinen Trainingscode, es gibt keine Trainingsdaten, sondern nur die Und die Lizenz der ist auch nicht superpermissive.",{"text":19151,"start":6468,"end":6612},"Also man kann es nutzen, man kann es kommerziell nutzen, man kann es für interne Use Cases nutzen, aber sobald man mehr als 20000000 Dollar im Jahr hat und es hostet, also zum Beispiel wie wie Firworks oder auch wie, ich sag immer, alle Modelprovider, dann braucht man eine 1 spezielles Agreement.",121,{"sentences":19154,"speaker":91,"num_words":19163,"start":6616,"end":6801},[19155,19157,19159,19161],{"text":19156,"start":6616,"end":6658},"Oder wenn ich 100000000 User hab oder 20000000 Millionen, dann brauch ich auch eine spezielle Lizenz.",{"text":19158,"start":6658,"end":6706},"Das ist dann für, keine Ahnung, ich hab irgendwie eine SAS Applikationen, in der hab ich 'n Agent.",{"text":19160,"start":6710,"end":6743},"Wenn die, sag ich mal, Nummer hat, dann brauch ich ja auch eine Lizenz.",{"text":19162,"start":6745,"end":6801},"Es ist jetzt verfügbar auf, man kann das mit WLANLM nutzen, man braucht aber 8 b-Tra 100 NVIDIA GPUs.",67,{"sentences":19165,"speaker":112,"num_words":19168,"start":6805,"end":6816},[19166],{"text":19167,"start":6805,"end":6816},"Hat jetzt nicht jeder rumliegen?",5,{"sentences":19170,"speaker":91,"num_words":19175,"start":6819,"end":6905},[19171,19173],{"text":19172,"start":6819,"end":6883},"Ja, also es gibt keine offiziellen Preises, aber es man bewegt sich, wenn man die jetzt sagen würde, zwischen 500 und 1000000, also 1500000.",{"text":19174,"start":6886,"end":6905},"Also wenn Du die einfach so neu kaufst,",32,{"sentences":19177,"speaker":112,"num_words":19180,"start":6909,"end":6917},[19178],{"text":19179,"start":6909,"end":6917},"Mit alle oder beide?",4,{"sentences":19182,"speaker":91,"num_words":19185,"start":6921,"end":7057},[19183],{"text":19184,"start":6921,"end":7057},"Also sagt, 8 8 8 g p use, Nvidia b 300, kostet zwischen 300000 und 500000 to purchase und oder zwischen die 100 Dollar pro Stunde und dann hat man halt natürlich noch 'n Also wenn wenn man's selber hostet, halt alles, was dazugehört.",44,{"sentences":19187,"speaker":112,"num_words":19190,"start":7057,"end":7065},[19188],{"text":19189,"start":7057,"end":7065},"Ja, ja.",2,{"sentences":19192,"speaker":91,"num_words":19168,"start":7065,"end":7081},[19193],{"text":19194,"start":7065,"end":7081},"Kannst Du ja nicht reden.",{"sentences":19196,"speaker":112,"num_words":19202,"start":7084,"end":7128},[19197,19199,19200],{"text":19198,"start":7084,"end":7090},"Noch, ja.",{"text":7093,"start":7090,"end":7092},{"text":19201,"start":7095,"end":7128},"Soll die Karten ins Datencenter werfen und hoffen, dass was passiert?",14,{"sentences":19204,"speaker":91,"num_words":19126,"start":7128,"end":7322},[19205,19206,19208,19210,19212],{"text":7093,"start":7128,"end":7132},{"text":19207,"start":7132,"end":7176},"Oder man hostet es halt auf der Cloud, da ist es die einhundert Dollar, je nachdem.",{"text":19209,"start":7179,"end":7210},"Das heißt, man kann son WLAN nutzen, wenn ich GPUs irgendwie hab.",{"text":19211,"start":7213,"end":7318},"Oder es gibt's auch auf verschiedenen Start-up- und Hosting Plattformen von Modal über Digital Ocean sogar, Firewallworks, das ist jetzt in C Cursor, auf der Olama Cloud oder sogar bei Dell verfügbar.",{"text":7093,"start":7321,"end":7322},{"sentences":19214,"speaker":112,"num_words":19218,"start":7325,"end":7346},[19215,19217],{"text":19216,"start":7325,"end":7341},"Hast Du's schon intensiver genutzt?",{"text":7348,"start":7345,"end":7346},6,{"sentences":19220,"speaker":91,"num_words":19223,"start":7350,"end":7425},[19221],{"text":19222,"start":7350,"end":7425},"Also man konnte es ja über die Chemie API nutzen, aber da war die Nachfrage so hoch, dass sie irgendwann mehr oder weniger New Sign ups deaktiviert haben.",28,{"sentences":19225,"speaker":112,"num_words":19190,"start":7425,"end":7431},[19226],{"text":19227,"start":7425,"end":7431},"Ja, ja,",{"sentences":19229,"speaker":91,"num_words":19240,"start":7431,"end":7604},[19230,19232,19234,19236,19238],{"text":19231,"start":7431,"end":7442},"das find ich auch.",{"text":19233,"start":7442,"end":7480},"Und ich hab's jetzt bei den Model Provinern, sag ich mal, noch nicht getestet.",{"text":19235,"start":7480,"end":7519},"Ich denk, ich werd's 'n Cursor mal testen übers Wochenende, wenn ich Zeit hab.",{"text":19237,"start":7519,"end":7571},"Aber ich mein, ich war schon, also ich fand das 2 Punkt Sechser Modell schon relativ gut für die Kosten.",{"text":19239,"start":7571,"end":7604},"Und vielleicht noch mal ganz kurz zu den Kosten auch für die ganzen Provider.",66,{"sentences":19242,"speaker":91,"num_words":19075,"start":7604,"end":7659},[19243,19245],{"text":19244,"start":7604,"end":7655},"Man bewegt sich eben 3 Dollar pro Million Input Tokens und 15 Dollar pro Million Output Tokens Bereich.",{"text":7660,"start":7655,"end":7659},{"sentences":19247,"speaker":112,"num_words":91,"start":7662,"end":7663},[19248],{"text":408,"start":7662,"end":7663},{"sentences":19250,"speaker":91,"num_words":18879,"start":7666,"end":7715},[19251,19253],{"text":19252,"start":7666,"end":7690},"Ich weiß gar nicht, also in den der mittleren Kategorie.",{"text":19254,"start":7694,"end":7715},"Und dafür soll's 'n echt gutes Modell sein.",{"sentences":19256,"speaker":112,"num_words":19259,"start":7717,"end":7786},[19257],{"text":19258,"start":7717,"end":7786},"Bist Du, wenn Du das am Wochenende evaluierst, bist Du fleißiger als die Mitarbeiter, die bei OpenAI am Wochenende offensichtlich ihren Test haben einfach laufen lassen.",26,{"sentences":19261,"speaker":91,"num_words":19264,"start":7786,"end":7835},[19262],{"text":19263,"start":7786,"end":7835},"Ja, vielleicht starte ich auch meinen Run und dann mal schauen, was der Mutoffus wird.",15,{"sentences":19266,"speaker":112,"num_words":19269,"start":7839,"end":7903},[19267],{"text":19268,"start":7839,"end":7903},"Wenn wir am nächste Woche in den News setzen, sagen, ja, die Programmierwebsite wurde gehackt am Wochenende von einem autonomen Age und dann.",23,{"sentences":19271,"speaker":91,"num_words":19276,"start":7907,"end":8007},[19272,19274],{"text":19273,"start":7907,"end":7940},"Ja, also ich ich würd jetzt nicht sagen, dass die Mitarbeiter nicht unvorsichtig waren.",{"text":19275,"start":7940,"end":8007},"Ich glaub, das sind einfach halt Themen, die man nicht unbedingt auf 'nem Schirm hat, weil wenn ich irgendwie, ich glaub, ich lass auch jeweils auf",40,{"sentences":19278,"speaker":112,"num_words":19281,"start":8007,"end":8015},[19279],{"text":19280,"start":8007,"end":8015},"jeden Fall, ja.",3,{"sentences":19283,"speaker":91,"num_words":19286,"start":8015,"end":8095},[19284],{"text":19285,"start":8015,"end":8095},"Ja, ich lass auch jeweils laufen und mach irgendwas und dann ich monitor halt nicht meinen Network Traffic von meinem Cluster, der halt irgendwie Python ausführt oder so was.",29,{"sentences":19288,"speaker":112,"num_words":19082,"start":8098,"end":8272},[19289,19290,19292,19294,19296],{"text":2395,"start":8098,"end":8099},{"text":19291,"start":8102,"end":8116},"Das war eine gute Woche für offensichtlich.",{"text":19293,"start":8120,"end":8165},"Wir haben nämlich auch den Launch von Opus 5 gesehen, da wollen wir auch noch kurz drüber sprechen.",{"text":19295,"start":8168,"end":8224},"Ich glaub, die ja, die Story von Opus 5 ist son bisschen auch erst mal, wenn man auf den ersten Blick draufguckt.",{"text":19297,"start":8229,"end":8272},"Pricing 1 zu 1 wie bei Opus 4 8 auch, 5 Dollar rein, 25 Dollar raus.",{"sentences":19299,"speaker":112,"num_words":18931,"start":8275,"end":8537},[19300,19302,19304,19306,19308],{"text":19301,"start":8275,"end":8295},"Ist damit wieder die Hälfte von Fable 5.",{"text":19303,"start":8299,"end":8359},"Und natürlich in der eigenen Ankündigung, ne, übertrifft irgendwie Fable 5 und übertrifft Typity 5, 6 Zoll in den meisten Benchmarks.",{"text":19305,"start":8363,"end":8426},"Vom Coding Level ungefähr vergleichbar mit dem, was wir von Zoll sehen, mit 'n bisschen mehr Effort vielleicht noch 'n bisschen mehr.",{"text":19307,"start":8426,"end":8458},"Da können wir gleich noch mal im Detail über den Benchmark drüber sprechen.",{"text":19309,"start":8460,"end":8537},"Mein persönlicher Eindruck ist trotzdem, dass es son bisschen token intensiver ist, auch wenn überall steht, dass so Performance und Effizienztreaming irgendwie mit mit Fokus war.",{"sentences":19311,"speaker":112,"num_words":19322,"start":8539,"end":8819},[19312,19314,19316,19318,19320],{"text":19313,"start":8539,"end":8574},"Aber das ist ja auch nur Anekdotenwissen, wenn man das selber hier mal probiert.",{"text":19315,"start":8577,"end":8623},"Das gab in dem Announcement Blogpost noch mal sonen eigenen Absatz auch über dieses ganze Security Thema.",{"text":19317,"start":8626,"end":8759},"Ich glaub, da haben Sie auch in der Kommunikation noch mal 'n bisschen extra Wert draufgelegt, nachdem Ihnen das letzte Mal beim Fable launcher so auf die Füße gefallen ist, da sehr ausführlich zu beschreiben, was da jetzt an Capability drin ist und wo so die eingebaut sind.",{"text":19319,"start":8762,"end":8771},"Eben schon gesagt, ne.",{"text":19321,"start":8771,"end":8819},"Es ist nicht immer einfach zu unterscheiden, bist Du grade in, bist Du der Angreifer oder bist Du der Verteidiger?",103,{"sentences":19324,"speaker":112,"num_words":19335,"start":8819,"end":9183},[19325,19327,19329,19331,19333],{"text":19326,"start":8819,"end":8872},"Weil die Fragen, die Du stellst und die Tests, die Capabilities, die Du brauchst, halt sehr ähnlich sind.",{"text":19328,"start":8874,"end":9032},"Was wir eben, sie halt gesagt haben, na ja, so Scanning ist irgendwie alles okay, Security Fixing ist irgendwie auch okay, aber sobald das irgendwie so an an binary Level Research geht, also das den Eindruck erweckt, dass Du quasi ein geschlossenes System untersuchst, das Du nicht aufmachen kannst, reinzuschauen, dann greifen da die die Guardrails so.",{"text":19330,"start":9037,"end":9107},"Laut ihren Benchmarks trotzdem in der Summe immer noch in weniger Fällen als in Fable 5, aber das bleibt mal abzuwarten, wie sich das so verhält.",{"text":19332,"start":9107,"end":9139},"Ich hab mir auch mal die Benchmarks bei Artificial Analysis angeguckt.",{"text":19334,"start":9142,"end":9183},"Da gibt's sich schon son ähnliches Bild wie das, was Sie auch im eigenen Blogpost angekündigt haben.",129,{"sentences":19337,"speaker":112,"num_words":19348,"start":9183,"end":9584},[19338,19340,19342,19344,19346],{"text":19339,"start":9183,"end":9295},"Also Sie spielen da nach wie vor ganz oben in dem Feld mit im Vergleich zu Opus 4 8, aber mit effizienterer Token Useage und mit dem Potenzial, 'n bisschen höher gehen zu können, wenn man eben mehr Afort irgendwie noch reinsteckt.",{"text":19341,"start":9299,"end":9395},"Und ich glaube, und da würd mich mal so deinen Take interessieren, das ist, glaub ich, so das Bild, was sich einfach so in den letzten paar Monaten auch bei den anderen Releases bei immer so abzeichnet, oder?",{"text":19343,"start":9395,"end":9498},"Also sozusagen, sie versuchen auf Biegen und Brechen an dieser Spitze zu sein, auch wenn es bedeutet, dass sie da für für denselben Task irgendwie unglaublich mehr Tokens irgendwie investieren müssten als jetzt 'n 'n oder so.",{"text":19345,"start":9498,"end":9575},"Ich hab immer so den Eindruck, OpenAI versucht son Pareto Optimum zu finden in ihrem Modelangebot und dann Tropic will einfach auf Biegen und Brechen quasi ganz vorne sein.",{"text":19347,"start":9578,"end":9584},"Ich glaub nicht.",149,{"sentences":19350,"speaker":91,"num_words":19361,"start":9586,"end":9844},[19351,19353,19355,19357,19359],{"text":19352,"start":9586,"end":9599},"Also Modell trainieren ist superschwierig.",{"text":19354,"start":9603,"end":9644},"Und Du kannst nicht einfach sagen, hey, wir opfern jetzt 2 Prozent und nutzen nur die wenige Tokens.",{"text":19356,"start":9644,"end":9733},"Also es geht ja, sehr alles Learning und ich brauch ja irgendwelche Signale am Ende, dass der Modell signalisiert, hey, Du hast eine gute Arbeit gemacht und Du hast eine schlechte Arbeit gemacht.",{"text":19358,"start":9736,"end":9799},"Und ich sag mal, bis vor 'n paar Monaten war ja alles in Richtung, hey, wir brauchen einfach bessere Modelle, der Rest ergibt sich von alleine.",{"text":19360,"start":9799,"end":9844},"Und das ganze Token Efficiency Thema kommt ja langsam, also dass wir beides optimieren möchten.",97,{"sentences":19363,"speaker":91,"num_words":19374,"start":9844,"end":10245},[19364,19366,19368,19370,19372],{"text":19365,"start":9844,"end":9932},"Und ist da vielleicht schon früher drauf gekommen oder hat das eine höhere Priorität angeordnet oder hat, warum auch immer, deren Trainingpipeline ist von Natur aus schon einfach mehr so orientiert.",{"text":19367,"start":9936,"end":9983},"Ich mein, Sie waren ja die Ersten damals mit den Modellen, vielleicht gehen Sie das Ganze 'n bisschen anders an.",{"text":19369,"start":9986,"end":10061},"Ich würd davon ausgehen, dass wir Opus Modelle sehen in Zukunft, die entweder halt die gleiche Tokenanzahl nutzen und dann trotzdem besser werden oder halt auch 'n bisschen mehr Token sind.",{"text":19371,"start":10064,"end":10096},"Wir haben jetzt auch vermehrt Benchmarks, die wirklich die Token sich anschauen.",{"text":19373,"start":10099,"end":10245},"Und ich glaub, sobald man nicht mehr diese Subscription hat, also bisher als User ist es mir eigentlich egal, ob Opus irgendwie jetzt 50000 Token nutzt oder 70000 Token, weil ich zum einen krieg ich's nicht so richtig mit und zum anderen hab ich meine Subcription und ich nutz die halt und ich komm meistens damit klar.",151,{"sentences":19376,"speaker":91,"num_words":19387,"start":10248,"end":10552},[19377,19379,19381,19383,19385],{"text":19378,"start":10248,"end":10330},"Wenn sich das halt irgendwie ändert und man man jetzt plötzlich per Token bezahlt auch als Entwickler, dann steht Open EA schon besser da und ich glaub, die werden da dran auch arbeiten.",{"text":19380,"start":10333,"end":10414},"Das Interessante, was ich vielleicht noch gesehen hab auf Social Media ist, dass bei allen neuen Releases, die die Menschen sich son bisschen uneinig sind, ist es jetzt besser, ist es schlechter?",{"text":19382,"start":10418,"end":10488},"Ich hab von vielen gelesen, sie gehen jetzt wieder zurück zu, weil's irgendwie den Besseren gefällt und Opus ist son bisschen mehr Gaslighting und halluziniert 'n bisschen mehr.",{"text":19384,"start":10491,"end":10529},"Man kann es zwar dann auch korrigieren und sagen, hey, lass doch lieber so oder so machen.",{"text":19386,"start":10532,"end":10552},"Oder manche gehen auch wieder zurück zu 4 Punkt 8.",120,{"sentences":19389,"speaker":91,"num_words":19395,"start":10552,"end":10646},[19390,19392,19394],{"text":19391,"start":10552,"end":10595},"Ich glaub, zum einen sind's wieder personelle Präferenzen, wie ich halt mit den Modells besser klarkomm.",{"text":19393,"start":10599,"end":10641},"Aber trotzdem ist es nicht mehr immer dieses, ich automatisch zum letzten, zumindest das, was ich seh.",{"text":10648,"start":10645,"end":10646},34,{"sentences":19397,"speaker":112,"num_words":19408,"start":10650,"end":10953},[19398,19400,19402,19404,19406],{"text":19399,"start":10650,"end":10714},"Da passt vielleicht ganz gut rein, dass parallel noch 'n sehr umfangreichen Blogpost veröffentlicht hat, den Sie genannt haben, so, für Cloud Opus 5.",{"text":19401,"start":10717,"end":10784},"Das fand ich auch ganz interessant zu lesen, weil Sie wohl, wir verlinken den Blogpost auch noch mal, denn Sie haben wohl massiv den Kontext aufgeräumt.",{"text":19403,"start":10787,"end":10817},"So, also sie haben gesagt, sie haben 80 Prozent ihres irgendwie weggeschmissen.",{"text":19405,"start":10820,"end":10904},"Und das kommt wohl daher, dass viel von dem, was man einfach früher angenommen hat, was in den muss oder auch in die Cloud MD und so weiter, mittlerweile überflüssig ist, ja?",{"text":19407,"start":10904,"end":10953},"Weil durch besseres Training, durch besseres Modelverhalten, durch bessere Tooljustage halt viel davon schon schon funktionieren kann.",111,{"sentences":19410,"speaker":112,"num_words":19421,"start":10955,"end":11273},[19411,19413,19415,19417,19419],{"text":19412,"start":10955,"end":11058},"Also wer schon 'n bisschen länger mit dabei ist, der weiß ja, also wir haben, also ich, zumindest glaub viel da draußen, haben ja auch so Sachen wie Cloud m d früher gerne mal so als Memory Bank missbraucht, ja.",{"text":19414,"start":11058,"end":11103},"Und so, okay, ich hab, es gibt hier langfristige Regeln, die sich irgendwie rauskristallisiert haben bei uns.",{"text":19416,"start":11103,"end":11153},"Die schreiben wir jetzt in die Cloud m d rein, damit wir da nicht jedes Mal wieder neu drauf kommen müssen und so.",{"text":19418,"start":11155,"end":11224},"Und die meisten dieser Harneße, Cloud Code ja auch, haben ja mittlerweile eigene Memory Feature, haben eigene Tools explizit dafür, haben eigene Skills für vieles davon.",{"text":19420,"start":11228,"end":11273},"Und so fliegt halt offensichtlich immer mehr bei Intropic da wieder raus, was vorher so fest verdrahtet war.",124,{"sentences":19423,"speaker":112,"num_words":19021,"start":11273,"end":11734},[19424,19426,19428,19430,19432],{"text":19425,"start":11273,"end":11348},"Und da gibt's, also Sie haben das supercool beschrieben so, wie Sie einfach beim Aufräumen auch gemerkt haben, dass da teilweise so controllicting Statements irgendwie drin waren.",{"text":19427,"start":11348,"end":11400},"In Ihrem System prompt versus das, was manche von den ad hoc Skills die Cloud dann eben selber noch nutzen kann.",{"text":19429,"start":11402,"end":11505},"Und dann ist es halt son bisschen unberechenbarer geworden so, wer setzt sich da im Zweifelsfall durch, das alles mal son bisschen streamen zu leihen, streamen zu können, wie auch immer, haben sie da wohl ordentlich, ordentlich aufgeräumt.",{"text":19431,"start":11507,"end":11688},"Und ich glaube, das ist mitverantwortlich, warum, ich kann das aus meinen ersten Tests bestätigen, warum sich Opus 5 am Anfang gefühlt sehr anders verhält vielleicht, als man das gewohnt ist und auch auch, wie Du sagst, noch diese, ich glaub, diese persönliche Präferenz entsteht ja ganz oft daraus so, man weiß einzuschätzen, wie dieses Model reagiert und wie man mit ihm reden muss und und bla bla bla.",{"text":19433,"start":11690,"end":11734},"Und ich kann mir vorstellen, dass da jetzt viel auf den Kopf gestellt wurde durch diese ganze Aufräumaktion.",{"sentences":19435,"speaker":112,"num_words":18867,"start":11738,"end":11900},[19436,19438,19440,19442,19444],{"text":19437,"start":11738,"end":11801},"Wir schreiben noch son bisschen über, wie Sie jetzt mit umgehen, wie Sie son bisschen effizienteres Tool Calling und Skill Usage machen.",{"text":19439,"start":11801,"end":11815},"Das ist, wie gesagt, ganz interessanter.",{"text":19441,"start":11819,"end":11829},"Kann man sich mal anschauen.",{"text":19443,"start":11832,"end":11866},"Kann man bestimmt auch das eine oder andere für das eigene Set-up übernehmen.",{"text":19445,"start":11866,"end":11900},"Aber wie gesagt, von dem Hannes profitiert man ja gleich schon gleich schon mit.",{"sentences":19447,"speaker":112,"num_words":19456,"start":11900,"end":12047},[19448,19450,19452,19454],{"text":19449,"start":11900,"end":11967},"Bei so was würd's mich immer interessieren, ob andere Labs, wie Du grade gesagt hast, ne, am Ende sind ja doch Ansätze vielleicht auch sehr ähnlich.",{"text":19451,"start":11967,"end":12004},"Ob die so was auch schon gemacht haben und einfach nur nicht so darüber gesprochen haben?",{"text":19453,"start":12004,"end":12029},"Oder ob das jetzt einfach was ist, was wir das 1.",{"text":19455,"start":12029,"end":12047},"Mal so wirklich grade bei Opus 5 sehen?",61,{"sentences":19458,"speaker":91,"num_words":19276,"start":12051,"end":12159},[19459,19461,19463],{"text":19460,"start":12051,"end":12100},"Ja, ich glaub, Du musst, man muss 'n bisschen differenzieren zwischen, ist das 'n Model Thema oder 'n Thema?",{"text":19462,"start":12100,"end":12154},"Also ich geh mal stark davon aus, dass ich, haben ja, also ich, meist schon einen Blogpost von Tarik wahrscheinlich.",{"text":164,"start":12158,"end":12159},{"sentences":19465,"speaker":112,"num_words":19218,"start":12161,"end":12177},[19466],{"text":19467,"start":12161,"end":12177},"Das geht Cloud Code natürlich, ne?",{"sentences":19469,"speaker":91,"num_words":19480,"start":12177,"end":12438},[19470,19472,19474,19476,19478],{"text":19471,"start":12177,"end":12182},"Ja, genau.",{"text":19473,"start":12182,"end":12224},"Und sie schreiben ja, hey, wir haben das entfernt und es hat sich verändert dann auf den Benchmarks.",{"text":19475,"start":12226,"end":12257},"Weil sich nichts auf den Benchmarks verändert, heißt ja nicht, dass sich was verändern.",{"text":19477,"start":12257,"end":12296},"Also die das Verhalten kann ja anders sein oder bei den Tasks, die ich mach.",{"text":19479,"start":12296,"end":12438},"Und das eine ist halt 'n Model und ich bin mir sicher, dass die ihr Modell nicht mit dem trainieren, weil dann overfittest Du und dann hast Du gar nichts davon, sag ich mal, sondern das ist ja son mehr son Agent Horness Thema teilweise, wie Du halt möchtest, dass sich das Modell in deinem verhöll.",105,{"sentences":19482,"speaker":91,"num_words":19493,"start":12438,"end":12626},[19483,19485,19487,19489,19491],{"text":19484,"start":12438,"end":12486},"Und gutes Beispiel find ich dazu ist PI, also das der der Open Source Hannes von aus Österreich.",{"text":19486,"start":12486,"end":12504},"Ich hab den vergessen, Marius.",{"text":19488,"start":12507,"end":12550},"Der hat ja sehr radikal zu Anfangszeiten gesagt, so, er möchte gar kein System mehr oder weniger.",{"text":19490,"start":12550,"end":12570},"Es waren irgendwie 5 Zeilen, hatte 4 Tools.",{"text":19492,"start":12570,"end":12626},"Also das ist ja so der das beste Beispiel an Radikalität, die in die Richtung, wo jetzt sie mit 'n bisschen gehen.",70,{"sentences":19495,"speaker":91,"num_words":19070,"start":12626,"end":12992},[19496,19498,19500,19502,19504],{"text":19497,"start":12626,"end":12651},"Und Pi funktioniert ja auch extrem gut mit mit Opus.",{"text":19499,"start":12655,"end":12778},"Sie waren halt sehr überdefiniert, was eventuell zu den Benchmarks, zu geführt hat, aber wie sie ja schreiben, wenn steht, und Du's schreibst als, hey, bitte nur superkurze Kommentare, dann hast Du halt 2 sich gegensätzliche Instruktionen, was es für das Modell schwieriger macht.",{"text":19501,"start":12778,"end":12837},"Und wahrscheinlich, wenn Du's dann hundertmal laufen lässt, für die Task hast Du wahrscheinlich 60 Prozent für dich, also wie Du's definierst.",{"text":19503,"start":12840,"end":12926},"Und 40 Prozent hast Du trotzdem noch zu lange Kommentare und Du sitzt dann als User da und denkst dir so, ich hab das doch jetzt extra da reingeschrieben, warum macht ihr immer noch diese langen komischen Kommentare?",{"text":19505,"start":12930,"end":12992},"Deswegen ist man einen wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen mehr, den die Nutzer die Möglichkeit zu geben, dass sich der Hahn so verhält, wie er soll.",{"sentences":19507,"speaker":91,"num_words":19518,"start":12992,"end":13240},[19508,19510,19512,19514,19516],{"text":19509,"start":12992,"end":13076},"Und zum anderen halt hat das Modell auch mittlerweile ja relativ gute Eigenschaften in sich, zu verstehen, okay, was ich jetzt tun soll oder nicht, wo es vielleicht eventuell davor 'n bisschen nicht der Fall war.",{"text":19511,"start":13076,"end":13118},"Ich glaub, 'n 'n interessantes Beispiel war dieses Goblins Thema von GPT, ja, so.",{"text":19513,"start":13118,"end":13148},"Frühere GPT-Fünf Modelle hatten ja son für Goblins irgendwie.",{"text":19515,"start":13151,"end":13205},"Ja, sie haben immer ganz viel über Goblins geredet und haben sich da die hinzugefügt, dass das halt nicht mehr der Fall ist.",{"text":19517,"start":13207,"end":13240},"Und man nutzt halt da sehr viel immer, okay, wie kann ich das son bisschen anpassen?",98,{"sentences":19520,"speaker":91,"num_words":19525,"start":13243,"end":13344},[19521,19523],{"text":19522,"start":13243,"end":13301},"Und vielleicht haben sie's jetzt geschafft, dass es einfach nicht mehr so viel benötigt beziehungsweise halt für Crowd Code nicht mehr der Fall ist.",{"text":19524,"start":13301,"end":13344},"Und ich mein, weniger ist immer gut für den Nutzer, weil dann zahlst Du pro am Ende weniger.",42,{"sentences":19527,"speaker":112,"num_words":19538,"start":13346,"end":13695},[19528,19530,19532,19534,19536],{"text":19529,"start":13346,"end":13369},"Ja, ich bin grad auch noch mal in dem Blogpost.",{"text":19531,"start":13369,"end":13478},"Ich such diese Einstellung und find sie grade nicht, wo sie son son bisschen auch darüber gesprochen haben, dass da halt am Anfang das Hahn ist halt auch einfach komplexer war, so dem dem Worst Case Szenario halt vorbeugen zu können, ja.",{"text":19533,"start":13478,"end":13572},"Weil als das ganze Ding halt auch noch neuer war, war halt auch so immer die Sorge, mit mit viel Macht kommt viel Verantwortung und Du musst das irgendwie mit viel GarTrails versehen, dass das klappt.",{"text":19535,"start":13576,"end":13664},"Und in den eigenen Tests haben sie wohl gesehen, dass es halt gar nicht notwendig ist, weil auch wenn Du das halt weglässt, diese diese ganzen Katastrophenfälle, die wir uns immer so vorgestellt haben am Anfang auch, ja.",{"text":19537,"start":13668,"end":13695},"Zähl mich da selber rein, ich war auch super besorgt so.",137,{"sentences":19540,"speaker":112,"num_words":19113,"start":13695,"end":13971},[19541,19543,19545,19547,19549],{"text":19542,"start":13695,"end":13763},"Jetzt führ ich hier son Agent aus und wenn der hier irgendwie r m dash r f macht, dann ist ja irgendwie bei mir gleich alles weg.",{"text":19544,"start":13766,"end":13784},"Und das ist ja ehrlicherweise einfach nicht passiert.",{"text":19546,"start":13786,"end":13882},"Also diese ganz, also alles, was man so mitbekommen hat am Anfang, waren ja wirklich eher Geschichten von, okay, da kann man sehen, wie jemand vielleicht sein Set-up son bisschen schief aufgezogen hat und dann ist da 'n bisschen was passiert.",{"text":19548,"start":13885,"end":13955},"Aber dass jetzt hier Coding Agents reihenweise Festplatten formatiert haben oder GitHub Repositorys gelöscht haben, ist ja in der Masse wirklich nicht aufgetreten, so.",{"text":19550,"start":13957,"end":13971},"Von daher cool zu sehen, ja.",{"sentences":19552,"speaker":112,"num_words":19562,"start":13973,"end":14188},[19553,19555,19556,19558,19560],{"text":19554,"start":13973,"end":13980},"Cool zu sehen.",{"text":13988,"start":13984,"end":13985},{"text":19557,"start":13990,"end":14050},"Wir können vielleicht ganz kurz noch Inkling anreißen beziehungsweise diese ganze Debatte Modelle und ob wir das jetzt irgendwie brauchen oder nicht.",{"text":19559,"start":14052,"end":14078},"Vielleicht einmal ganz kurz, Inkling von von Thinking Labs.",{"text":19561,"start":14078,"end":14188},"Thinking Labs ist diese, ich wollt grad sagen, Ausgründung, aber es ist ja keine Ausgründung, sondern das ist das neue Lab von Mira Murati, als sie Open AI verlassen hat als CTO und dann was Eigenes gemacht hat.",73,{"sentences":19564,"speaker":112,"num_words":19575,"start":14188,"end":14400},[19565,19567,19569,19571,19573],{"text":19566,"start":14188,"end":14220},"Die haben jetzt ein vorgestellt mit, Gott, wo hab ich's hier?",{"text":19568,"start":14223,"end":14257},"Über 900000000000 Parameter komplett eigen trainiert, ist jetzt letzte Woche rausgekommen.",{"text":19570,"start":14260,"end":14285},"Model of Experts, Mixe of Experts kennt man.",{"text":19572,"start":14288,"end":14382},"Von daher auch wieder son bisschen, aber es hat sich eben halt so angeschickt als das beste westliche Open wait Model irgendwie dazustehen in den Matchmarks, die aktuell eher von chinesischen Modellen irgendwie dominiert werden.",{"text":19574,"start":14384,"end":14400},"Die Frage ist, braucht man das so?",72,{"sentences":19577,"speaker":112,"num_words":18872,"start":14400,"end":14423},[19578,19580],{"text":19579,"start":14400,"end":14413},"Brauchen wir diese Modelle wirklich?",{"text":19581,"start":14413,"end":14423},"Ist ist das sinnvoll?",{"sentences":19583,"speaker":91,"num_words":19218,"start":14426,"end":14439},[19584],{"text":19585,"start":14426,"end":14439},"War das eine Frage an mich?",{"sentences":19587,"speaker":112,"num_words":19592,"start":14439,"end":14472},[19588,19590],{"text":19589,"start":14439,"end":14449},"Das war eine Frage.",{"text":19591,"start":14449,"end":14472},"Also so viele andere Leute sind hier nicht, so.",13,{"sentences":19594,"speaker":91,"num_words":18867,"start":14474,"end":14640},[19595,19597,19599,19601,19603],{"text":19596,"start":14474,"end":14498},"Ja, also natürlich, ich mein, man profitiert von beidem.",{"text":19598,"start":14498,"end":14543},"Also ich bin jetzt nicht der derjenige, der's sagt, wir brauchen nur oder wir brauchen nur irgendwie Models.",{"text":19600,"start":14547,"end":14565},"Beide haben guten Grund zu existieren.",{"text":19602,"start":14569,"end":14576},"Beide haben Use Cases.",{"text":19604,"start":14579,"end":14640},"Es ist für beide nachvollziehbar, warum ich 'n Modell nicht irgendwie öffentlich zur Verfügung oder halt als Modell releasen möchte oder auch schon.",{"sentences":19606,"speaker":91,"num_words":19615,"start":14643,"end":14892},[19607,19609,19611,19613],{"text":19608,"start":14643,"end":14707},"Ich glaub für Thinking Labs als als Company, wenn ich's richtig versteh, Sie haben ja ganz viel Infrastrukturservices auch und vor allem Learning Training.",{"text":19610,"start":14710,"end":14771},"Und sie verfolgen, glaub ich, eher den Aspekt so, hey, wir helfen Unternehmen, die ihre eigenen Modelle trainieren wollen, wirklich in, dass sie das machen können.",{"text":19612,"start":14773,"end":14811},"Und damit Du 'n Modell trainieren kannst oder halt weiter trainieren kannst, brauchst Du ja erst mal 'n Modell.",{"text":19614,"start":14813,"end":14892},"Und deswegen macht das ja durchaus Sinn für sie, diesen Ansatz zu gehen, dass sie dann halt als ihre Produkte oder halt mit das zusammen mit Unternehmen weitere Modelle trainieren können.",100,{"sentences":19617,"speaker":112,"num_words":19628,"start":14894,"end":15221},[19618,19620,19622,19624,19626],{"text":19619,"start":14894,"end":15006},"Ich hab mich am Wochenende noch mal son bisschen in diese ganze Diskussion Modelle eingelesen und bin über einen Absatz gestolpert, der gesagt hat, na ja, das gap zwischen Open Way und nicht Open Way Modellen ist so mittlerweile vielleicht bei 4 Monaten angekommen, ja.",{"text":19621,"start":15006,"end":15072},"Und ich kann mich daran erinnern, dass wir, glaub ich, letztes Jahr diese Diskussion schon mal geführt haben und da waren das noch so 6 Plus Monate.",{"text":19623,"start":15075,"end":15106},"Und gefühlt sehen wir halt grade, wie sich dieses Gap irgendwie immer mehr schließt.",{"text":19625,"start":15106,"end":15131},"Wahrscheinlich wird es nie ganz geschlossen werden so, ja?",{"text":19627,"start":15131,"end":15221},"Es wird immer son son 'n gewissen Vorsprung da da geben, aber ich frag mich, was über was auf Dauer so der der Vorsprung von diesen ganzen propitären Labs dann halt irgendwie sein kann, ja?",130,{"sentences":19630,"speaker":91,"num_words":19641,"start":15223,"end":15603},[19631,19633,19635,19637,19639],{"text":19632,"start":15223,"end":15274},"Ich würd jetzt nicht sagen, dass der Grund ist, dass diese Modelle released werden, dass sie Vorsprung gegenüber Open Rates haben.",{"text":19634,"start":15274,"end":15392},"Also es gibt viele nachvollziehbare Gründe, warum ich 'n Modell nicht jetzt irgendwie als Open Rates releasen möchte von, ich hab Millionen an Research investiert und möchte halt, bin halt 'n Unternehmen und muss halt irgendwie Geld verdienen und möchte das halt als Service bereitstellen zu weiteren Themen.",{"text":19636,"start":15396,"end":15442},"Und ich glaub, das also ich mein, ist doch an sich positiv, wenn man beides mehr oder weniger zur Verfügung hat.",{"text":19638,"start":15444,"end":15544},"Wenn Du halt, sag ich mal, dich auf ein Modell konzentrierst oder auf eine Modell Family, hast Du halt viel mehr Möglichkeiten, diese zu optimieren und halt darüber vielleicht bessere oder halt auch besser zu skalieren und darüber bessere, sag ich mal, bereitzustellen.",{"text":19640,"start":15547,"end":15603},"Und am Ende ist es ja wie in jedem Markt, umso mehr Konkurrenz ich hab, umso besser ist das ja für den den Endnutzer.",157,{"sentences":19643,"speaker":91,"num_words":477,"start":15607,"end":15728},[19644,19646],{"text":19645,"start":15607,"end":15631},"Und wir sehen's ja jetzt mit, okay, ist k 3.",{"text":19647,"start":15635,"end":15728},"Es ist relativ kosteneffizient und was wahrscheinlich auf mittel langfristiger Sicht dazu führen wird, dass alle wahrscheinlich auch mehr bisschen in Effizienz investieren werden und man dann darüber auch günstigere Preise wieder hat.",{"sentences":19649,"speaker":112,"num_words":19660,"start":15731,"end":16020},[19650,19652,19654,19656,19658],{"text":19651,"start":15731,"end":15768},"Ja, also das ist wahrscheinlich richtig oder garantiert richtig, ne, konkurrenz belebt so das Geschäft.",{"text":19653,"start":15768,"end":15825},"Und ich glaub auch, dass wir immer mehr zu so Set ups gehen werden, wo halt krass unterschiedliche Modelle im Einsatz sind, ja.",{"text":19655,"start":15825,"end":15898},"Also dass wir weniger sehen, dass jetzt, weiß nicht, Du hast vorhin so das SAS Unternehmen angesprochen, was jetzt hier vielleicht seinen Chemie benutzt und das irgendwann lizenzieren muss oder so.",{"text":19657,"start":15901,"end":15937},"Aber vielleicht dadrin dann halt auch für unterschiedliche Use Cases sehr bewusst sehr unterschiedliche Modelle, ja.",{"text":19659,"start":15937,"end":16020},"Bei Sachen, die halt irgendwie sind, vielleicht was Kleines, lokal Gehostetes, da irgendwie Kategorisierungen mitzumachen für den generischen Chatbot, der im Zweifelsfall irgendwie alles beantworten können muss.",112,{"sentences":19662,"speaker":112,"num_words":19667,"start":16024,"end":16106},[19663,19665],{"text":19664,"start":16024,"end":16041},"Vielleicht 'n größeres profitäres Modell, so.",{"text":19666,"start":16044,"end":16106},"Ich hab das, also ich seh das ehrlicherweise noch nicht so häufig so, aber es klingt halt so ultralogisch eigentlich, wenn man drüber nachdenkt, ne.",31,{"sentences":19669,"speaker":91,"num_words":19680,"start":16109,"end":16337},[19670,19672,19674,19676,19678],{"text":19671,"start":16109,"end":16136},"Ja, also ich mein, das ganze Rautehema kommt ja wieder hoch.",{"text":19673,"start":16136,"end":16206},"Wir hatten das ja mit, ich glaub, GPT 5 Wars, wo Sie 'n Chat GPT diesen haben, der dann dynamisch die Anfragen schicken soll.",{"text":19675,"start":16208,"end":16269},"Wir haben das jetzt wieder in Curseur, die haben ja 'n Routourlease, dann ich glaub, weitere haben hat, glaub, auch jetzt 'n Router.",{"text":19677,"start":16273,"end":16314},"Also wir gehen wieder im, hey, Du hast halt diesen Router, der dann das zu den verschiedenen Modellen?",{"text":19679,"start":16314,"end":16337},"Ah, Open Router hat, glaub auch jetzt",83,{"sentences":19682,"speaker":112,"num_words":19190,"start":16339,"end":16344},[19683],{"text":19684,"start":16339,"end":16344},"Open Router.",{"sentences":19686,"speaker":91,"num_words":19695,"start":16347,"end":16490},[19687,19688,19689,19691,19693],{"text":2395,"start":16347,"end":16348},{"text":7093,"start":16348,"end":16351},{"text":19690,"start":16351,"end":16418},"Und dann gab's aus Japan mit, glaub ich, heißen die, die diesen Agent Router oder irgendwie so was haben, der dann verschiedene Modelle je nach Radio nutzt.",{"text":19692,"start":16421,"end":16427},"Sehen wir wieder.",{"text":19694,"start":16427,"end":16490},"Ich mein, am Ende hast Du immer wieder dieses Spiel zwischen, wir werden besser, wir müssen's kostengünstiger machen, wir werden besser, wir werden's kostengünstiger machen.",57,{"sentences":19697,"speaker":91,"num_words":19702,"start":16492,"end":16614},[19698,19700],{"text":19699,"start":16492,"end":16539},"Und ganz, ganz am Ende wird wird es nicht ein super Riesenmodell sein, weil wir einfach die dafür ja nicht haben.",{"text":19701,"start":16539,"end":16614},"Wer mit Strom und Elektrizität und Chips unendlich zu verfügbar, dann klar, dann würde es keinen Grund geben, warum wir kleine Modelle trainieren müssten, sag ich mal.",48,{"sentences":19704,"speaker":112,"num_words":18879,"start":16614,"end":16660},[19705,19707],{"text":19706,"start":16614,"end":16638},"Na ja, also sind ja trotzdem auch einfach schneller.",{"text":19708,"start":16638,"end":16660},"Also selbst wenn Du alles hast, sind's ja trotzdem,",{"sentences":19710,"speaker":91,"num_words":19719,"start":16663,"end":17111},[19711,19712,19714,19715,19717],{"text":8773,"start":16663,"end":16664},{"text":19713,"start":16664,"end":16728},"Ja, aber mit MOIs und anderen Innovationen ist es ja nicht mehr so, dass 'n großes Modell unbedingt langsamer ist als 'n kleinereres Modell.",{"text":2395,"start":16728,"end":16730},{"text":19716,"start":16733,"end":16837},"Und deswegen, ich bin mal gespannt, was das, sag ich mal, im Bereich sich tun wird, weil es ist extrem teuer, son Foundation Modell zu trainieren, aber es fühlt sich im Verhältnis kostengünstiger an, son Routermodell zu trainieren.",{"text":19718,"start":16840,"end":17111},"Und eventuell werden wir in naher Zukunft dann, sag ich mal, auch mehrere Router haben oder vielleicht haben wir Unternehmen, die sich nur auf als als Business Use Case darauf fokussieren, hey, ich trainier diesen Router, weil ich hab verschiedene Domänen in meinem Unternehmen und ich möchte halt den das bestmögliche Ergebnis dafür haben und dass halt 'n normaler Smalltalk wie hey oder was Du machst oder keine Ahnung, irgendwelche Dokumente lesen, halt irgendwie zu 'nem kleineren, kostengünstigeren Modell geht und halt für irgendwelches komplexes long running komplett autonom Projekt erstellen, man halt das größere Modell nutzt und Du als Kunde dann wahrscheinlich wieder weniger das siehst.",171,{"sentences":19721,"speaker":91,"num_words":19730,"start":17111,"end":17385},[19722,19724,19726,19728],{"text":19723,"start":17111,"end":17249},"Und aber ich glaub auch hier wieder, ist wieder dieses Subskription Modell, weil man hat immer dieses, ich zumindest, dieses Innerliche, hey, ich will immer das größte und beste Modell nutzen, wenn ich die Möglichkeit hab, weil dann ist ja das Ergebnis besser oder halt zumindest im Durchschnitt ist das Ergebnis besser oder gleich gut.",{"text":19725,"start":17252,"end":17307},"Und wenn man halt nicht unendlich viele Kosten hat, dann bin ich auch, hab ich nicht die son mir son lauter anzuschauen.",{"text":19727,"start":17310,"end":17368},"Und ich glaub, die werden sich halt dieses Jahr verändern, dass halt die Kosten zu hoch werden für die Unternehmen, vielleicht die, weniger User haben.",{"text":19729,"start":17368,"end":17385},"Und dann war das auf jeden Fall interessanter.",110,{"sentences":19732,"speaker":112,"num_words":19743,"start":17387,"end":17541},[19733,19735,19737,19739,19741],{"text":19734,"start":17387,"end":17411},"Ja, ich glaub, da ist auch son psychologischer Punkt dabei.",{"text":19736,"start":17411,"end":17440},"Also ne, Du hast ja auch gesagt, der der Router bei GPT 5.",{"text":19738,"start":17440,"end":17452},"Ich war damals auch zufrieden.",{"text":19740,"start":17455,"end":17495},"Es war so ungewohnt, son bisschen diese Kontrolle aus der Hand geben zu müssen, ne.",{"text":19742,"start":17495,"end":17541},"Wer führt jetzt hier eigentlich dieses Ding aus, was ich haben will und krieg ich wirklich das beste Ergebnis zurück?",63,{"sentences":19745,"speaker":112,"num_words":19756,"start":17544,"end":17822},[19746,19748,19750,19752,19754],{"text":19747,"start":17544,"end":17676},"Aber wenn man das mal son bisschen genutzt hat und da Trust reinhat, kann ich mir schon auch vorstellen, ja, dass halt dein dein Agent, dein Hannes dann, keine Ahnung, für dich so Entscheidungen trifft und hat, na ja, Du willst jetzt hier, weiß ich nicht, nur deinen LinkedIn Post gepollet haben so.",{"text":19749,"start":17678,"end":17709},"Das kriegen wir auch mit 'nem kleinen Model hin, so sprachliche Korrekturen.",{"text":19751,"start":17713,"end":17730},"Boah, Du musst dir son Security Ding fixen.",{"text":19753,"start":17730,"end":17760},"Da werfen wir mal lieber drauf irgendwie, was wir haben, so, ja.",{"text":19755,"start":17762,"end":17822},"Und wie Du sagst, vielleicht auch 'n cooler Business Use Case, das einfach für so anbieten zu können, da so Feintuning drauf zu machen.",109,{"sentences":19758,"speaker":112,"num_words":19763,"start":17822,"end":17875},[19759,19761],{"text":19760,"start":17822,"end":17869},"Und wir machen 'n Router, der genau für euch und auf eure Use Cases und mit euren Anforderungen so zusammenarbeitet.",{"text":19762,"start":17872,"end":17875},"Da gibt's",22,{"sentences":19765,"speaker":91,"num_words":19180,"start":17877,"end":17886},[19766],{"text":19767,"start":17877,"end":17886},"Ja, ich glaub, aber",{"sentences":19769,"speaker":112,"num_words":19190,"start":17889,"end":17894},[19770],{"text":19771,"start":17889,"end":17894},"noch mehr.",{"sentences":19773,"speaker":91,"num_words":19628,"start":17896,"end":18205},[19774,19776,19778,19780,19782],{"text":19775,"start":17896,"end":18065},"Ich glaub, das Problem halt wie bei allem ist, wenn Du alle 2 bis 4 Wochen 'n neues Modell hast, das besser und günstiger ist oder besser und gleich gut, dann kannst Du nicht diese trainieren, weil die, das verschiebt sich einfach so schnell, dass in der Zeit, wo Du den neuen trainiert hast oder erstellt hast und evaluiert hast, das neue Modell da ist und dann rennst Du halt immer 'n bisschen hinterher.",{"text":19777,"start":18068,"end":18095},"Deswegen ist ja das ganze Feintuning auch 'n bisschen, sag ich mal, zurückgegangen.",{"text":19779,"start":18098,"end":18106},"Aber ja, bleibt spannend.",{"text":19781,"start":18106,"end":18114},"Ich bin positiv.",{"text":19783,"start":18114,"end":18205},"Und glaub, als erstes praktisches Beispiel, wo das schon weniger interessant ist, wenn ich dann Freunde und Familie denk, die jetzt irgendwie die Geminar App nutzen, denen ist es scheißegal, ob da Flash oder pro steht.",{"sentences":19785,"speaker":91,"num_words":19395,"start":18205,"end":18290},[19786,19788,19790,19791],{"text":19787,"start":18205,"end":18253},"Die Du stellst halt deine eine Frage oder was Du halt darüber reden möchtest und Du kriegst 'n Ergebnis zurück da.",{"text":19789,"start":18256,"end":18282},"Die würden da jetzt nicht extra reingehen und hey, ich, okay.",{"text":2395,"start":18286,"end":18287},{"text":2395,"start":18289,"end":18290},{"sentences":19793,"speaker":112,"num_words":19796,"start":18292,"end":18314},[19794],{"text":19795,"start":18292,"end":18314},"Dann letzte Frage, kommst Du eigentlich zur Programmierkorn?",8,{"sentences":19798,"speaker":91,"num_words":19281,"start":18318,"end":18324},[19799],{"text":19347,"start":18318,"end":18324},{"sentences":19801,"speaker":112,"num_words":19395,"start":18327,"end":18423},[19802,19804,19806,19808,19810],{"text":19803,"start":18327,"end":18332},"Glaub's nicht?",{"text":19805,"start":18332,"end":18341},"Ach, okay.",{"text":19807,"start":18341,"end":18351},"Bisher noch nicht.",{"text":19809,"start":18354,"end":18363},"Okay, bisher noch nicht.",{"text":19811,"start":18365,"end":18423},"Wenn ihr da draußen trotzdem kommen wollt, auch wenn ihr vielleicht nicht die Chance habt, Philipp zu treffen, könnt ihr das nur machen.",{"sentences":19813,"speaker":112,"num_words":19824,"start":18423,"end":18640},[19814,19816,19818,19820,19822],{"text":19815,"start":18423,"end":18481},"Wir haben grade, glaub ich, noch das letzte Drittel der Tickets ungefähr im Verkauf und dann ist auch schon bald wieder Ende Gelände.",{"text":19817,"start":18484,"end":18559},"Von daher noch mal der kleine Servicehinweis, wer noch keins hat, sollte das da vielleicht zeitnah drum kümmern und vielleicht überreden wir Philipp bis dahin noch, dass er auch kommt.",{"text":19819,"start":18562,"end":18579},"Wenn nicht, müssen wir so Wetten, dass?",{"text":19821,"start":18579,"end":18609},"Mäßig die die die Außenwette irgendwie machen und Philipp zuschalten.",{"text":19823,"start":18612,"end":18640},"Ja, okay, das war jetzt auch wieder son Witz für die Älteren.",82,{"sentences":19826,"speaker":112,"num_words":19126,"start":18640,"end":18809},[19827,19829,19831,19833,19835],{"text":19828,"start":18640,"end":18670},"Das Wetten, dass ist auch schon datet, glaub ich mittlerweile.",{"text":19830,"start":18673,"end":18693},"Alright, dann sind wir durch für diese Woche.",{"text":19832,"start":18697,"end":18711},"1000 Dank Philipp für deine Zeit.",{"text":19834,"start":18711,"end":18732},"1000 Dank für alle da draußen, die zugehört haben.",{"text":19836,"start":18732,"end":18809},"Wenn ihr Fragen, Anmeldungen, Anmerkungen, Kritik, was auch immer habt, dann immer gerne Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder hinterlasst gerne Kommentare auf allen Plattformen, wo ihr uns zuhört.",{"sentences":19838,"speaker":112,"num_words":19202,"start":18809,"end":18849},[19839,19841,19843],{"text":19840,"start":18809,"end":18833},"Wir lesen immer gerne fleißig mit und freuen uns darüber.",{"text":19842,"start":18836,"end":18840},"Bis denn.",{"text":19844,"start":18845,"end":18849},"Tschau, 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